Saturday, 15 August 2009

The Hartes need a heart-to-heart

Meet the Harte family, Ger, Danielle, and their five children. They seem to be doing all right. They live in a seven-bedroomed detached house, have two cars, 4 televisions including a 50" flat-screen, and of course the obligatory Sky Sports subscription. In the photo in the Sunday Independent seven of the family are sporting Celtic (I'll have to give them a plus for that) and one what appears to be Aston Villa expensive replica tops.
And they are in receipt of €3,800 (about $5,500) a month from the Irish taxpayer to help them along

But all is not well. The Hartes believe they’re getting a raw deal from the taxpayer, and took their grievance to the courts. They were somewhat surprised – and upset – at the subsequent lack of sympathy when the media got hold of their story.

One of the people a bit put out was an IT salesman who earned €32,000 a year, from which he had to pay transport costs for a two-hour commute to work, mortgage payments and doctors bills – all of which costs would be covered for the Hartes. He made the valid point that he was working his ass off and coming out with less than the Hartes.

Why bother?’ he asks.

Why indeed? And therein lies a large part of Ireland’s problems, and why our social welfare payments will be about €20 billion this year. And that's for a population of four million! 40% of the population at any one time is in receipt of welfare payments such as those trousered by the Hartes.
And we wonder why we have a financial crisis. It's not only the bankers and developers who have brought this on us. The insane welfare expenditure instanced by the the examples I gave above show how the blame can be spread around. Ultimately of course the fault is that of the politicians who countenanced all of this, and the sheeple who elected them.


OneStonedCrow said...

Just a question ... I assume that's unemployment welfare, does every jobless person get €3,800 a month?

SAVANT said...

No, that's not just unemployement (dole) payments. That amounts to about €210 per week per person. The Hartes would also be in receipt of numerous other allowances such as child benefit, rent allowance, free health and various other things.

Anonymous said...

The more publicity things like this get the better. The game is up - the till is empty. The sooner it's recognised the easier for everyone.

OneStonedCrow said...

Thanks for the reply ... it makes me wonder why anyone bothers to work there ...

Anonymous said...

For many people it's NOT worth working - and they choose a life on the dole. Or better again go for 'disability' benefit. Just call into your GP and tell him you have a sore back and off you go to collect your cheques for the rest of your life!

Viking said...

During my last (short) period of unemployment in Ireland I collected 210 euros a week, which was generous I thought. I heard I could also apply for rent allowance so went along to the health department or whatever it's called, and the queues were massive - and almost everyone in that queue was a foreigner. The reason I didn't hang around was not just the numbers but the smell. Call me racist now, but I felt physically sick. I decided it just wasn't worth a few extra quid a week...

Anonymous said...

Do the freshly arrived Negroes have access to this generous fund also? If they do then your country really deserves to go under. By the way, next to me now in the internet cafe an African is looking for bargains in second hand motors on a computer next to me. Serioulsly, when I see this kind of carry on my own reaction is also 'why bother'? Anyway, how is it the dole office is full of Negroes even though we have no political or economic agreement with any African country? Is Ireland only a mickey mouse country for any one who arrives here? I'm beginning to think it is.

SAVANT said...

anon 20.44. I can't say exactly what they get, but you can judge from my post here. In essence, a special law was brought in in 2005 TO ENABLE THOSE WHO HAD BEEN REFUSED ASYLUM TO CLAIM THE FULL PANOPLY OF WELFARE BENEFITS IF THEY HAPPENED TO HAVE FATHERED A CHILD WHILE HERE.

Sorry for all the uppercase but to me nothing else showed up the insanity of our, er, system here.

Anonymous said...

Is the dole office full of negros of the most ugliest characteristics?


Anonymous said...

Viking: I worked in Port Harcourt (Nigeria). Our home help always had an overpowering smell of vaginal odour. when my wife tactfully raised it with her she said 'men like that'.

I rest my case!


Middle Finger said...

Ireland is so totally fucked if they continue dishing out money like it grows on trees! In good old South Africa only 8,9% of the total population pay tax and still the masses keep shouting 'more, we demand more'!

Anonymous said...

don't you just love the way the national media , picked on the native Irish guy and his wife , they'd never run a story about the blacks treating Ireland as a cash cow ! 38,000 Nigerian men on the dole and not 1 of them ever worked a day in this country !

Zngr said...

In Finland all foreigners who walk to a police station and request asylum (mystically, even from within EU, namely Romania, even though it should not be possible) collect a monthly allowance of some 310€ euros. Of course, if they run out, they must be given more. They are supposed to buy their own food, but if they claim they ran out of money, they must be also0 fed.

This comes in addition of free housing, free legal help (so you can battle any deportation attempts - a lucrative business for lawyers and very expensive for taxpayers) and of course free health care. Including mental health care, which is very convenient - crazy people, or those who claim they are crazy, cannot be deported.

For example two hotels in the smack middle of Finland's most expensive urban metropolitan area, in the middle of which is the city of Helsinki, were recently turned into refugee centers at the meager cost of 1500€/month per room. They are to house 200 to 250 asylum seekers, of currently which only 5% are granted asylum but of which apparently 90% (though nobody knows for sure) still stay in Finland and of which 60% get within the sphere of social benefits (or hop the border to Sweden - often from where they came from in the first place).

SAVANT said...

zngr: seems like Finland is even worse that ireland. What mugs we are. Is there any sign of a public (taxpayer) backlash?

Anon 16.26. Good point. The MSM were all over this case, and justifiably so. But yes, there's not a word about the Nigerian scammers here in theri tens of thousands creaming us off to their hearts' content.

Anonymous said...

I posted on 16th Aug from an internet cafe, remember, there was this African next to me looking for second hand 4x4s on some used motor site. I asked him straight out where did he get the money for such a thing, they were around 10.000, I said I thought he was supposed to be a poor refugee. He got up and walked out, told me I was a very stupid man as he left. I told him to go back to Africa.

eh said...

A bit more anecdotal evidence that the wrong people are having all the kids.

Of course the laws that allow this are passed and administered by legislators and bureaucrats, people who, for the most part, have secure jobs and retirements at taxpayer expense, and thus are in a sense somewhat immune from the financial vulnerability and competitive life pressures faced by taxpayers working in the private sector. I guess this is one reason term limits have been put in place for legislators in some places.

Zngr said...

There is so much wrong in this system it makes me want to type in all capitals. For example youth and young adult employment in the capital metro area has collapsed, and one of my younger friends (age 24, but steady taxpayer since 18 years of age) recently had to move into a storage space and live there because she is unable to pay the exorbitant one room flat prices without a steady job, which are very hard to come by right now (the rents going from 600€+ and above).

Meanwhile, only a few blocks away, third world foreigners are being housed at the rent of 1500€ a month, foreigners who are mostly muslims and Africans, of which 80% arrive without any travel documents like a passport, and therefore can claim whatever they want of their origins, and of whom 80% according to the police also lie their age depending on if it's favourable to be either underage (you can't be turned and you can wiggle your family in after you if you are a "child") or over 18 (more welfare money, when it's established you are not going to be turned). In fact the "refugees" simply change their age depending on what suits their needs. Many bearded men who look to be 30 are housed at centers ment for teenagers and children. A 15 year old Somali, upon deportation, revealed his true age at 25 or 27, which he was not sure of. Not one or two small local magazines have published rather angry letters from locals, who question why the municipal officials, often by vote, agreed to receive 20 or 40 children but end up having to house in some cases over 120 men of all ages (but few or no apparent children). Only a fifth of the asulym seekers are women at this point, as the global human smuggling and asylum shopping system has developed to it's current state. For example my neighbour, a right-wing business woman is a staunch defender of receiving refugees, having read books about the horrible conditions of Afghan women and girls. The MSM has efficiently fooled her into thinking it is Afghan schoolgirls who are flooding over the Swedish and Norwegian border: she was rather surprised at hearing 80% of those who appear at police stations across the country are fit, young men, possibly former soldiers or wealthy drug dealers who actually are the very same men who would terrorize the schoolgirls in Afghanistan.

Naturally everyone except the workers of the victim industry immediately can spot the asylum seeking "war-children" (as the MSM has taken to calling the tall, bearded men) are usually adults, as all the Somali or Iraqi teenagers already living in Finland also look like teenagers.

At one point a few years ago a refugee center close to my city of birth had an interesting situation: of the asylum seekers waiting a decision 100% had been found guilty of a crime of some sort during their stay in Finland. To deportations these crimes bare no consequence, because of the lawyer army enforced by DEMLA (or "Democratic Lawyers" - what a laugh) of whose current or former members almost every minority or important immigration official and bureucrat is, rather like an good old boy system built around the immigration industry, and ultimately the EU human rights courts that stand in the way. At first sign of deportation for example most Africans from the Horn of Africa claim they have become insane, reciting a very similar story which has been taught to them by other economic asylum shoppers, and are then housed at a price-tag of 440€ a day in centers for the mentally disturbed, with extra costs for multicultural "patients" who need translators and other extra services, and simply handle their business from the mental institution, then to suddenly vanish.

Some may even re-appear over the Swedish border via truck or boat in merely a few weeks, with newly forged documents or a newly invented identity and settle down to a new refugee center to collect their handout cash, depending if the police were able to take fingerprints, as Somalis have taken to scraping them off. Some continue their shopping tour to another EU country.

Zngr said...

We even have cases where it has been found, without any possibility of a mistake, that there are asylum seekers who were BORN IN SWEDEN residing in Finland and collecting money (of course from an ethnic group that cannot be mistaken for white Swedes and who speak an African language, Urdu or Arabic fluent). This is a good business, as they get their regular benefits from Sweden, can rent their apartment in Rinkeby or Tensta for the Swedish black market for illegals (who are hiding in Sweden from local authority), and meanwhile live in Finland for free while collecting the local welfare, making them comparatively well to do in the income scale indeed. Even when they are returned, they can make a nice salary during the months in which they abuse the system created to serve real refugees. Officials have also found refugees who receive an apartment from the social service and a residence permit in Finland who simply return to another country and rent the apartment to a group of illegals, making a hefty salary. No wonder even Muammar Gaddafi has repeatedly ridicules the EU immigration policy for it's incredible naivety. In these cases it is extremly difficult to evict the person without considerable waste of paperwork and effort, as they can always state they were simply visiting relatives while letting some friends stay over, making it rather challenging to prove they have broken any known law.

Some asylum seekers have told local police and officials shopping residence permits from country to country is a lifestyle of a sort, and at one instance described the handouts as "disco money Finns give you" (Somali and Kurd men always first find the local disco or bar after they are bussed to their refugee center and given cash). Around the centers, street battles between local men and muslim men are frequent, but most often the asylum shoppers engage in combat amongst each other, as the Iraqis hate Somalis and Somalis hate Kongolese and so on. Local women and girls report harassment, and other refugees, especially women who have already settled in Finland in the previous decade, have come out to the press telling that men from their countries of origin are targeting them for harrasment, verbal abusement and spitting from the cover of the refugee centers (for the reason of becoming too "Westernized" and hence bringing shame to Muslims) up to and including death threats. Again, this bears little influence to the longevit of the stay of an individual in the country as simply verbal abusemnt or unverified threats are surely not enough of a reason to send an Iraqi man back into a country where he might be tortured or killed. This of course is rather incomprehensible to the regular tax payer, as it sounds that people can appear to a Nordic country and conduct themselves in any manner they wish merely by the virtue of claiming to come from a country as chaotic as Iraq. Does this mean all Iraqi people are entitled to social benefits and healthcare in Finland, if they just find the resources to make it here?

In 2008 Finland re-defined the foreigner legislature to allow people to move in more freely. The purpose was, according to the gospel, to get much needed foreign multicultural workers to help Finland in a time when we needed more labour force.

The result, of which naturally all but the minister of interior and minister of immigration were well aware of even beforehand was to quadruple the amount of asylum seekers who gained residence permit, that is, some 4000 persons. The cost for each adult is some 16 000€ a year, and the cost of a "child" is over 55 000 - which sounds peculiar as we know only one room can cost 1500€ of tax payers money monthly, which means the reported sum does not even include housing, simply services and "integration costs". This also means, according to the family re-unification law, that within one or two years for every person admitted three or four more will follow, but this time they are entitled to full welfare benefits instantly - as any Finnish citizen.

Anonymous said...

Toally depressing zngr, totaly and absolutely fucking depressing. Surely Fiunalnd can see what happened in Denmark, Sweden?

Zngr said...

However they have no responsibilities and are not even offered efficient means to learn Finnish unless they somehow can manage it on their own while living in their own communities, usually separate from the rest of society (which everyone understands will be a difficult task). Recently Finland managed to deport a single Somali after he had been convicted of 37 crimes, including six assaults that caused grievous bodily harm to his victims (those convicted of under 25 crimes were not deported). In an interview, much to my surprise, the man and his compatiots could not find any wrong in their own conduct, claiming with the reporter listening empathically that they were "just turning a corner" and instead accusing that their crimes were caused by Finnish racism. A surpsing view indeed, when we take into light that according to The Minority Right Org, Somalia is the most racist country on earth with Finland in the other end of the spectrum. The cost of a single asylum seeker or humanitarian immigrant, placed at 16k€ for an adult, we must remember, does not include even their rent but also does not take into account the legal or healthcare costs of these individuals. The sum must be off the chart compared to that what is told to the public. Right now, according to an unofficial slip from an municipal official, 90% of Africans that seek asylum come to Finland practically unable to read or write in any language. Such is the chaos in the continent. It takes at least 12 years but often much more education to teach a Finnish child to operate in our society and perform at a job. One can only assume that the mental capabilities of Africans are vastly superior to that of Finns, since according to the current minority ombudsman Johanna Suurpaa, formerly of DEMLA, it would only take up to a few years when the African arrivals can efficiently contribute to the Finnish society. However speaking against that claim is the fact that during the past decade at any point only 10% of so of the Somali population have been active and employed in the economy, the rest being either unemployed or simply not listed as belonging to the work force (in this way: there are, say, 5000 people of Somali birth in Finland in the year 2005, 1500 of who are included in the work force, 500 of whom work, so a goverment statistic puts their employment at 30-40% but the real number is still 10% - what the inactive Somalis are doing the minister of interior is not willing to share). Of those that work, most are either social workers handling the cases of other Somali immigrants or translators to the public services - so their salary is paid from the public sector, that is, the purse of the tax payer.

Government responses to all this in the beginning of 2009? At least QUADRUPLE the amount or refugee centers in one or two years so we can house all those coming, this at the start of a global recession. They also had a representation during the TV news in which it was explained how new refugee centers bolster the local economy, including bright blue and red balls and arrows. It explained that all the costs of this type of immigration will be provided for by the goverment, not the municipality, hence, it boosts our failing economy. How anyone can fail to miss the money used for this is originally taxed from the citizens, including those who enjoy the economic boost the humanitarian immigrants supposedly provide, is beyond me.

I need not add, there really was no need for additional labour force at any point apart from some few specific sectors like particular construction, IT, and nurses or doctors familiar with high end mechanical equipment, all requiring higher education, and that any such needs have now vanished.

Zngr said...

After my tour de force of ranting I also want to add the (or at least my) specific problem is not that the comers are Iraqis, Afghans, Ethiopian or Somali, I would be just as angry if for some reason New Zealanders and Canadians started flooding over the Swedish and Norwegian border, claiming asylum and being completely unable to contribute to the society (while being highly criminal compared to the natives) - and in the case of the adults probably never will, as many Middle-Eastern and Muslim immigrants often fail to learn the Finnish language even after staying here for over a decade, and those unable to read and write are permanently so, according to what little official comments there are available. What irks me most is that African or Muslim immigrants are granted immunity from criticism from both the government and the media, hence the problems cannot be realistically faced and thus any attempt to fix them fails. Any protesting or reasonable voices are still accused of racism, xenophobia or prejudices caused by high consumption of moonshine or lack of an education, academics, humanists and immigration lawyers being the only ones who can understand the wonderful benefits this type of mass migration offers us. At least if the comers were NZ or Canadian whites, we could possibly point out the obvious harm humanitarian immigration is bringing about, without being attacked by the politically correct Thought Police and possibly brought to the courts for racial hate speech.

Dear SAVANT, I might return to tax payer reactions later but Mrs. Zngr is forcing me to hit the sack at this moment. There has been a reaction, even from MSM writers, some of it surprisingly critical, but the voices are still small. In the end, Finland is just starting on the path of the project of Multicultural Hell and many, many people still live in areas untouched by any of this. I have been (un)lucky enough to see for myself what happens when the Third World moves in and is given neither stick nor carrot, but almost infinite rights and no responsibilities.

We can only hope the recession, and those who drum the cost of humanitarian immigration in public as our own services are being driven to the ground, will shake more people awake from their torpid slumber.

Zngr said...

RE: Mr. SAVANT taxpayer reactions

The True Finns, an EU critical minority party with nationalistic tones, went from 2.5% to over 10% in a few years because of the immigration question and protest votes.

Alas they apparently cut a deal with the big ones in hopes of gaining favours for the next parliamentary elections, and basically dropped their most prominent anti-multicultural candidate, who was obviously going to make it, from their list for the EU elections. Now they instituted new stricter rules that enable the party leadership to throw out any politically incorrect people off the party as another nod to the ruling elite. So while their populist agenda (of which I approve) got them pretty far very suddenly the leadership balked and lost heart, rather trying to play it safe. Hence, their popularity is diving again. A new party is in the works, but we all know most new parties fail and vanish as quickly as they came. People are getting much smarter about immigration, but there might be nobody to vote for.

RE: @anon 21:04,

thing is before the current government everything was relatively well at hand, despite we lacked (and still lack) any consistent integration policy or planning.

It all turned for the worse after the last elections. The current group in charge of the immigration industry are great admirers of the "Swedish immigration model" and socialists who want to show off to the EU. They don't care what it means to regular Finnish people, though even majority parties have reps who speak against this. The current parliament also thought it was a good idea to give every comer full or at least very generous benefits, so as to integrate them better (naturally every regular taxpayers knows it has exactly the opposite effect).

All reason was lost for a moment and we will have to endure at least two more years of it. The persons in charge know this and are attempting to inflict the maximum amount of damage possible before they are kicked out in -11.

The total sum of third world humanitarian immigrants from -08 alone, including family re-unions, will end up somewhere between 12 000 to 20 000 (compared to a few thousand max in previous years), who will all rely on welfare benefits and are basically permanently unemployable in an information and service society like Finland. There are very few jobs for unskilled labour and even those few that exist are contested by the hundreds of thousands of Finns who are now losing their jobs.

During this year, -09, it is estimated between 5000 to 10 000 new humanitarian immigrants will be granted residence, and in -10 or -11 they will bring in 15 000 to 40 000 relatives via family reunion.

Unless severe measures are taken to make Finland less attractive. Something as reasonable as cutting all handouts and benefits and locking up asylum seekers in refugee centers during their processing would work as deterrent, or automatic deportation of criminals, but is unlikely to happen.

Basically the number of immigrants in Finland who have gained residence by either asylum or the new "other humanitarian reason" law will triple in a few years time. We were unable to slowly integrate under 30k of such immigrants during two decades of economic boom.

Now we will have to handle three or four times the same number in a few years during heavy recession and mass unemployment. Our exports are down 40% from -08, our GDP is looking to drop 10%. I expect a sharp rise in far-right sentiment and actual, real racist violence and ethnic disturbance. All caused by liberal immigration policy.

What can I say. Placebo ain't cutting it no more.

SAVANT said...

zngr. I ask of you Finns: why, why WHY????

Viking said...


thanks for the enlightenment on the situation in Finland!
I spend a great summer in Turku in 03 or 04 and it was great, I hardly saw any immigrants in the daytime but at night there were plenty.
Particularly noticeable though were the gypsies, or "Roma" as we are supposed to call them. They're a lot better dressed in Finland than in Ireland, I'll tell you that much.
Finland is a great country, and in no way deserves to be overrun with violent, hateful scum.

Anonymous said...


Thanks again for your insightful analysis of Finnland's invasion. Keep it up friend, we're on your side.

It is time now for Europe to either sink or reclaim some partial white sovereignity because its insane liberal rulers have completely lost the will to live. Set up organisation that can deal intelligently with these problems. Europe it at a crossroads, that it will either re-assert itself or perish.