Saturday, 2 May 2009

What can we make of this?

In May 1916 Jesse Washington, a 17 year-old black youth said to be ‘of low intelligence and violent disposition’ (what – a black of low intelligence and violent disposition????) was convicted of the brutal murder and rape of a 53 year-old white woman, Lucy Fryer. There seems to be little doubt as to his guilt, with a raft of circumstantial evidence and the fact that he had lead police to where he had hidden the hammer with which he’d bludgeoned the widow to death.

The jury certainly thought so anyway, and things didn’t look too good for Jesse even during the trial, when one juror, impatient with the process, leapt out of the box to attack him. Their subsequent deliberations took all of four minutes before bringing in a guilty verdict for which the death penalty was to be applied.

Before law officers could remove Washington from the court, a group of white spectators surged forward and seized the convicted murderer. They hurried him down the stairs at the rear of the courthouse, where a crowd of about 400 waited in the alley. A chain was thrown around his neck before he was dragged toward the City Hall, where another group of concerned citizens had gathered to build a human bonfire.

On reaching the City Hall grounds, the leaders of the mob threw Washington onto a pile of dry goods boxes under a tree (a special tree, more anon) and poured coal oil over his body. The chain around Washington's neck was thrown over a limb of the tree, and several men lowered his body onto the pile of combustibles. They then ignited a fire and watched him burn alive .

An observer wrote: "The boy was beaten and dragged to the suspension bridge spanning the Brazos River. Thousands roared, "Burn him"
.
"Bonfire preparations were already under way in the public square, where Washington was beaten with shovels and bricks. Fifteen thousand men, women, and children packed the square. Some women begged the participants to delay the proceedings so as they could dress properly for the occasion. They climbed up poles and onto the tops of cars, hung from windows, and sat on each other's shoulders.

"Children were lifted by their parents into the air. Washington was castrated, and his ears were cut off. A tree supported the iron chain that lifted him above the fire of boxes and sticks. Immersed in the flames, he attempted to climb the blisteringly hot chain multiple times. For this the men cut off his fingers. The executioners repeatedly and slowly lowered the boy into the flames and hoisted him out again. With each repetition, a mighty shout was raised."

It’s unclear how long Washington was alive, but the entertainment lasted more than an hour, after which his fingers and teeth were claimed as souvenirs, his body parts were separated from the torso, and what was left was dumped in a bag so they might be dragged once more through the Waco streets.
But not everyone stood idly by. The Mayor, who had drawn up a chair to his window to watch the festivities, suddenly freaked out. His concern was that the flames might kill the tree, which, I kid you not, was known as the Tree Of Knowledge. When they weren’t burning prisoners, town elders sat under it and debated profound issues, informed by a copy of the Holy Bible which was contained in a water-proof (and presumably fire-proof) box at the foot of the tree. Hence the Tree Of Knowledge.

And this should have been no surprise, as Waco, which then had a population of only 30,000 – had no fewer than 63 churches! Clearly a very pious community, and for this it was known as ‘Three Cs – colleges, churches and cotton’.

The MSM of the time took it in their stride: From the Waco Morning News "Resembling the forefathers who dared anything for their country's sake, the determined band of farmers and neighbours last night declared to the sheriff that they didn't want trouble’ – unless you call burning a prisoner to death trouble

"Yesterday's exciting occurrence is a closed incident," stated the Waco Times-Herald.

And that's just what it became - a closed incident. Even today many natives of Waco have never heard of it.

The moral of the story? I suppose it underlines the capacity for the basest evil that lies within all of us. Also the duality of good/evil. I'm sure that many if not most of those townspeople who partook in that grisly spectacle would, in other circumstances, help you if you were in trouble, and were decent family men. Could it also explain why the ‘Marxist/PC/cultural equivalence’ people are now killing the West? Does it go some way towards explaining some of the Western, especially American, self-hate we see in such people?

All I know is, as much as I curse what these people have wrought on our civilisation, I’d hate to have been part of the culture that prevailed in Waco, and in so many other places, at that time.

96 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yea, I watched Waco: Rules of Engagement. The Feds tortured then murdered the
children and babies. The child talking to the Fed at the beginning is chilling. Death by liberal.
As for liberals being violent cowards; of course they are. They'll flip. That just the way it is.

Anonymous said...

This criminal asshole clearly deserved what he got. Sweet old-school justice in its perfection. This thoughtful action by wronged townfolk is needed more than ever to combat the tax burden of over-crowded prisions.

SAVANT said...

anon 6.48. I dont have any sympathy for the bastard either, but that not the point. Do you really approve of what these 'ordinary citizens' did? Do you approve of kids on their dads' shoulders wathcing someone being burned alive?

If you my friend, you got problems. And it makes it much harder for those of us trying to defend 'Western Civilisation'.

Anonymous said...

Check out how much black criminality and mayhem was there at this time. Not a fraction of what's there today. It's the only langiuage they understand. Sorry.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Savant, your point being the example of the underlying judeo-christian morality of "good vs evil" when turned into irrational mob violence. This is of course what we as nationalists occur the rath of the rabid liberal progressive democrats today in the form of Political correct tyranny. On the other hand, the non-white mob which has commited 1000% more atrocities than whites and is also far more violent and unstable will not hesitate to destroy us when its time comes. The time for manly defence in true western tradition (Martel) is upon us.

But lets face it, does showing a man dressed as a pig thrusting his giant penis against the rear of a porn star in an act of mock beastiality somehow a proper way to "defend Western Civilisation"?

Ps, it's not "Western Civilisation" I am trying to defend since it is already decayed beyond recognition (on all planes). It is the race of white peoples I fight for and their coming renaissance.

Anonymous said...

I'll tell you what we can make of it - we wouldnt have the black savages terrorising us everywhere today if we had a bit more of that. Not nice, but it gets the job done.

Liberallyinsane said...

You're right Savant, nobody deserves that. That is behaving just like the most savage Africans. I think I am going to become a Liberal. Right, I am now a Liberal. This site is disgusting, it's full of virulent RACISTS!! No, that's not good, I feel like my mind is now owned by the BBC! Oh well, worth a try.

Anonymous said...

Let's face it, we're all savages dep down!

Skot German said...

What can we make of this? Here are a few things.

1. That there is a madness of crowds phenomenon.

2. That cruel public executions have long been a traditional European form of entertainment.

3. That there has not been much time for evolutionary change since this happened 92 years ago. Those of European descent still have within them the capability of committing such atrocities.

4. That not necessarily everyone alive in Waco at the time thought this was a good thing.

5. That those that oppose your views will use incidents like this as a emotional cudgel against you.

6. That this incident has nothing to say about the truth or falseness of Christianity or the racial beliefs at the time.

Anonymous said...

Savant,
a little off topic but well worth looking at, espcially the first three or four comments

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/may/02/7-july-bombing-inquiry

Jockney

Anonymous said...

No, it's not my "gig" either. I'm fully cognizant of having at least two sides of my own nature, but I wouldn't allow myself to yield to the depraved side, unless acting in self-defense.

However, this singular act of human immolation pales in comparison to senseless firestorm enacted on a grand scale by "the right honourable" Prime Minister Churchill and President Roosevelt when these two men unleashed their murderous firestorm on Dresden in the latter days of WW II.

....and that's not even mentioning Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

mrpoopy said...

I think the Savant makes a good point--the townspeople were clearly enjoying themselves by torturing the he-boon in such a long, drawn-out fashion. Clearly, they had some pent-up issues to feel a need to put on a spectacle like that. A bullet to the head would have achieved the same end result. It seems to me that a little constructive imagination on their part would come up with a better way to scare the hell out of the local negro population if that was their "excuse".

http://www.b0g.org/wsnm/articles/A+Postcard+From+My+Son+Joe+O_O

Rhein said...

Hopefully this is a glimpse of what awaits criminals, especially rapists and pedophiles, in all our lands. I see absolutely nothing wrong with what they did and i'd do it myself if an invader started raping in my town.

I'm not too keen on the part where they brought their children to watch though, not unless they're 16 anyways... ^^

And i think the fact that we let all manners of simians rape and protstitute our women and children without lifting a finger a much bigger taint on us than what these people did.

@Anon who said we were all savages.If that was the case then there wouldn't be any invaders left. And i doubt the entire world would be banging at our doors like a horde of zombies if it was so. On second tough, maybe it's time we regain our good 'ol white savagery...

Vince R said...

This is quite a disturbing post. Those actions reduced us, as humans, to base animals, and we have seen the ultimate in the holocaust scarcely 20 years later. Perhaps anons "Let's face it, we're all savages deep down!" 03 May 2009 11:57
is correct. And maybe we (all of us) know it deep down too. Maybe that's the root of this multi culti, PC obsession with human rights. Maybe its better for all of us to "agree" that we all are equal, even if we're not, rather than face the logical consequences we witnessed in the preceding few centuries.

Anonymous said...

I'm simple apalled that so many of these comments support what these dreadful people did. I had thought that such attitudes had died out long ago.

Obviously I'm wrong. Dont get me wrong, I broadly support what this blog is trying to achieve, but some dreasdful people, such as 'Rhein' clearly read it as well.

Clodagh

Anonymous said...

Clodagh you'd feel like those townspeople if a boon like this animal was after raping and killing your moher. It's easy to condemn from a distance.

SAVANT said...

Excellent analysis - skotgerman.

Anonymous said...

Genghis Khan had a hoard of very tough men to rule. He had to invent cruelty to which they would pay attention and make them apprehensive enough as to control them.
We in the western civilization is stuck with the same problem today. If I look at what is perpetrated in South African farms today, one would have to be pretty creative to make an impression on these barbarians.
Herein lies the problem. It is not for squirmish people but heads on a stake makes an impression on the hardest criminal and it serves as a warning. Nothing else is effective.

Anonymous said...

"What can we make of this?" - a good days work, resulting in no black rape/murders for over 30 years in Waco.

That answer your question?

Texas Dan

togo said...

The primitive nature of mob psychology is well known:
http://www.amazon.com/Extraordinary-Popular-Delusions-Madness-Crowds/dp/0934380236

If you do some research you'll find very similar stories of Czech mobs (and Czechs are normally be considered to be a quite civilized people) torturing and killing innocent German civilians in the wake of the German defeat in May 1945.

Anonymous said...

The lesson to be learned from Waco is never forgive and never forget, not only should justice be done, it must be seen to be done. Public hanging would do the job. Clinton swinging, yea! Was it a public show of force by the state? A hint - after they had burnt the children and machine gunned anyone trying to leave the church they raised a flag. Death by state.

Anonymous said...

SAVANT writes:
"Do you really approve of what these 'ordinary citizens' did? Do you approve of kids on their dads' shoulders wathcing someone being burned alive?"

Different Anonymous here.

Two questions. Roughly, yes and no.

I don't think children should be
participating, even as observers, to this kind of rough justice.

I'd rather that the mob had awaited the punishment, which
would likely have been death.

Today, I'd rather that they just
lynch the bastard. That would be true if he were White, as well.

Anonymous said...

What you have to remember is that it wasn't just blacks that were lynched. People of all races were lynched because of crimes they had allegedley committed. Right/wrong, moral/immoral - I don't believe in any of these concepts, however, were the acts universally beneficial? Assuming the accused received a fair trial - yes, a benefit to society for permanently removing such a person; and no, not a benefit to the spectators (especially children). It does make one wonder how different the mindset was just 100 years ago. I couldn't imagine witnessing such an act.

Anyway, I do take pride in the fact that white society as a whole condemns this sort of "justice" and it is whites that have outlawed the practice.

Interesting site:
http://www.withoutsanctuary.org/main.html

Anonymous said...

All sorts of terrible things have been done that we are grateful for-- and doubly grateful we were not involved. The large-scale and small-scale lists are endless. By grateful I mean grateful for the effect these acts had in tempering savagery and creating an environment of fear but also peace.

The wrong kind of peace? An "awkward" peace? Maybe so. But what is peace among fellow citizens of like race or different, regarding violence, if not tenuous and uncertain?

I want to say "I would never enjoy a spectacle like that" but what if I were that woman's son? "Enjoyment" is not the word anyway. It is a rage of satisfaction. A knowledge that justice, out of control and sadistic in the extreme, is about to weigh in. That people should get caught up in it like a cyclone is not surprising.

The act itself is condemnable and horrid. But it certainly makes us think hard about maintaining civility and civilization and its costs. The efforts we are presently waging against criminality and mindless brutality from the "Other" are not working. Can anyone be unaware of this fact?

leadpb

Anonymous said...

Its clear that the spectacle put on by these townfolk, was to set an example to the rampant criminality of blacks at that time that continues to this day unchallenged. Obivioulsy these folk had put up with endless rapes, crimes and murders on their kin and had some pent up anger to unleash at the next encounter. This was the end result.

There is no need to throw any emotive marxist nonsense like alluding it to the holohoax. What about the Armenian genocide or the Bolshevik revolution and the ukranian genocide by communists that happened around the same time?Its amazing how leftists/liberal progressives fall silent on those important incidents. Nevermind the holohoax or "white colonial imperialistic oppressive residues" or "we are all animals inside ad nausem" irony . Clearly some races are more closer to the animal then others.

Skot, has some decent points to make, but it is only whites who were capable of such introspection and analysis of their own nature. Do non-whites constantly check and re-check their actions be they irrational or not? Do they understand the nature of fairness or nordic "fairplay"?

Savant have you any more to add to these comments?

Albeus Ergo Cogito said...

Texas Dan hit the nail on the head!!
Those guys evidently knew the true nature of the beast and how to deal with it.
Why do you think the vigilante action by the blacks in South Africa to this day parallel that burning? Remember our infamous necklacings?
The only truth these cultural enrichers understand and appreciate is extreme violence to curb their innate evil nature...

Anonymous said...

You have to look at the greater impact on society. It's a total certainty that with this kind of rough justice, and no fancy legal loopholes, that scum like this wont act their true nature. So, in my humble view, society benefits much more so than under today's approach.

Anonymous said...

Yes, we do all have a duality as you say. However, whites keep the evil side under control so much better than primitive blacks - sorry to have to say that - and for that reason the strongest and most salutory lessons must be imparted to them. In essence, blacks, and we see it here all the time, blacks understand force. Appealing to their better natures or 'enlightened law enforcement' wont work for them.
Thank you.

Anonymous said...

I this day and age, people justifying burning prisoners alive! Do they suggest a good old-fashioned witch-hunt as well to round the afternoon off?

These people are monsters.

clonycavan said...

Thank you Savant, for bringing this incident up for comment. I am a liberal; liberal on free speech, and liberally and without distinction opposed to cruel and barbaric punishments.
Some of the views you have elicited here are shocking and very,very wrong.

(I had thought these barbarous punishments inflicted in Europe (though by 1916 not for about a century and a half)required years of desensitisation and practice; but you've shaken my certainty.)

Anonymous said...

"What can we make of this?" - a good days work, resulting in no black rape/murders for over 30 years in Waco.

That answer your question?

Texas Dan

Sure answers mine. I think a spectacle such as this -- if it would prevent just one murder of an innocent by a frothing bug-eyed savage would be worth it. I'd light the bastard up myself.

So ... Anonymous of 04 May 2009 12:36

Stick that in your pipe and (heh, heh) light it up.

Uncle Nasty

Anonymous said...

I wonder if this post will get a content warning- 'this content might make you think'.
It is certainly horrific.

togo said...

Re burning people alive:
http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/wars/witness2history/19.html
(...)
"When Edward Benes, supported by the allies, entered Prague on Sunday, May, 13th, 1945, German citizens were burned alive in his honour at St. Wenceslas Square." - Document No.15 "Many Germans were hung up by their feet from the big advertising posters in St. Wenceslas Square, then when the great humanitarian approached their petrol-soaked bodies were set on fire to form living torches." - Louis Marschalko, Hungarian Playwright and Novelist (...)

Anonymous said...

I see one of your comment posters saw fit to drag the bombing of Dresden into the conversation......What that has to do with the price of cheese is hard to understand..What I can say without fear of being wrong is that old chestnut " He who sows the wind reaps the whirlwind" is very apt here.Those swaggerring Nazi's who raped Poland ,Holland Czechoslovakia,France Belgium, Holland and Norway were sowing a wind that eventually brought the ruin of the entire German people.Whilst they bombed the heart out of cities all over Europe ,did they give a thought to the poor souls who perished in the flames of Coventry,Liverpool,London. Manchester Etc of course not, six weeks after the Dresden bombing in March 1945 the V2's were still raining down on London.On the night of the Dresden bombing in February 1945 it is estimated that there were some 12400 helpless prisoners gassed to death by the concentration camp guards throughout Poland and Germany.Wind---Whirlwind Fuck em.

Anonymous said...

The thing that I got out of this post was the knowledge of what the Czechs did to the Germans in 1945. I had no idea whatsoever.

Anonymous said...

Worse was done to that poor Donald lad in Scotland, by muslim animals, and he hadn't evendone anything

Anonymous said...

you gotta balnce the overall good v the overall bad. did this bad event create more good in that less blacks went on the usual murdring/raping? In my view it certaonly did and wud certainly do so again if we did it now. We'd stop the vast negro crime wave that's devestating this country.

So on balance, bad deed but good results.

Anonymous said...

How can those people who support this claim anything about the 'western civilisation' they keep on prattling about? If these ghouls were an example of same, take me far away - it's not worth definding.

Anonymous said...

I shul also add to that what togo quotes in an earlier comment: "When Edward Benes, supported by the allies, entered Prague on Sunday, May, 13th, 1945, German citizens were burned alive in his honour at St. Wenceslas Square."

who are we (the West) yo look down on ANYONE!!!

gerry-said said...

Doe's the punishment fit the crime?
did these people feel just hanging the guy to be sufficient,or did he deserve more.
Or were they just expressing their outrage at the crime through the punishment.
Here's a quote from a series of books called the "Annual register" the series covers the years form 1758 to 1780.
Thomas Lee convicted of the murder of Mr Petty in the year 1766, received sentence of death, and was executed at Tyburn yesterday. He is to be hung in chains near the place where the murder was committed.
Obviously murder and rape were much more serous offences back then!

Maybe it is we who are barbaric?

IsraeliEejit said...

God help us if we ever regress to such barbaric and cruel behaviour.

Anonymous said...

"So on balance, bad deed but good results."

This is wrong thinking. This act might have left Wacoans in peace, but maybe all the miscreant blacks just left the vicinity and practiced their savagery in other locales?

I would offer this improvement on the current scheme: absolutely no variation or leniency in sentencing-- instead of time off for good behavior, you get time *added on* for less than good behavior. Two violent felonies and you are in for life with no questions and no consideration for parole. The prison system is something of a racket, hence lack of politicians with stones to implement anything like what these savages deserve. This cowardice-- our cowardice-- is sickening.

Is anyone certain that the death penalty is more punishment than absolutely guaranteed life in the clink? Severe punishment is no joke; it doesn't have to be a sadistic spectacle.

leadpb

Anonymous said...

First off, the gassings were allied propaganda hoax's (Britian is famed for using gass on the battle fields of ww1 as were Americans for executing their prisioners with it and Churchill flirted with the idea of mass gassings in his memos). Dresden wasn't even needed (but used for terrorist effect against the maurading Soviets), nor the terror bombings of Hamburg and Wurzburg. These fire bombings collectively killed more than the nuclear bombs on Nagasaki and Horishima (of course the liberals never mention that nor Dresden). The Germans did "invasions" as peacefully as possibly especially when considering the annexation of European countries. This occupations (less than "invasions") kept the German troops to the highest order of discipline that punished crimes of rape, looting etc with severity as opposed to the allied armies like the Americans who did rape tens of thousands of "liberated French" and German women and the Soviets who raped 90,000 plus women in the first week of arrival in Germany. Many Germans were met with open arms by Ukranians, Latvians and White Russians because they pushed back the oppressive measures of Stalin. Truth is, had Stalins forces not been so depleted by Germany's initiative, Europe by now would most likely be a communist empire, with real death camp gulags for dissenters and intellectuals being a daily reality. This is the real reason why communists hate nationalism so much.

Poland was invaded both by Hitler and Stalin at the same time (why is this rarely hightlighted?). Many peaceful negotiations were made before hand Because of land disputes and the oppression by Germans border towns at the hands of the treacherous Polish attorities, which is something they could have prevented with foresight--btw I have spoken to Poles about this and they agree that Poland was far worse off under communism and that their government should have negotiated a peaceful pact with Hitler, but they refused due to British/zionist pressure. What idiots.
And now sympathy for Britain? Was not britain not involved in its own colonial adventures murdering and pilaging all over9(Ireland included), about time someone gave a bit back to those cunts. They were offered peaceful negoiations many times by Hitler even when he could have taken full advantage after the battle of Dunkirk.

12 million Germans perished and these were not by hitlers hands but by the manifest hatred of the mass murdering communist and allied international. Who still, even today, claim the moral high-ground when they cannot even wash their hands clean of mass war crimes.

It's easy to say you reap what you sow, but who is exactly sowing and who is exactly reaping? I could say all of those, the world over, murdered in those turbelant years deserved what they got , but I do not feel that way.

Anonymous said...

Those who favor the action (with
the exception of children
participating) justify it with
pragmatics, claiming it's necessary to prevent Blacks from
preying on the White community.
Pragmatics based on observation,
and it sounds plausible given the
well known Black crime rates.

Those who argue against it claim
it's just wrong, and that all
right thinking people must oppose
it, and anyone who doesn't is a
monster. Rather like a religious
argument. Lots of point and
sputter. Try and construct a
better argument as to why it is
wrong!

If I knew these beasts would be put down quickly I'd be opposed
to this, but somehow I bet that
the complainers oppose capital
punishment as well.

We'll see how long you keep that
attitude in Ireland as you get
more and more Blacks. Experience
is a cruel teacher.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

"All sorts of terrible things have been done that we are grateful for-- and doubly grateful we were not involved. The large-scale and small-scale lists are endless. By grateful I mean grateful for the effect these acts had in tempering savagery and creating an environment of fear but also peace."

SNIPPED

leadpb"

Lots of anonymouses (myself among them), but still ... I keep returning to this post and stop to read the comment by leadpb above.

And feel the comment (in quotes above) pretty much sums it up to a "t". Dreadful that we -- under normal circumstances -- are capable of such feelings, but equally dreadful that we are pushed there by the mindless injuctices inflicted on us by an increasingly shrill left wing of society.

I think that it was the late Kurt Vonnegut who pointed out that the most violent retribution is usually exacted by those who finally react to a seemingly endless string of abuse and -- above all -- petty injustice.

If and when -- for example -- the British public, or the US public, are finally pushed to that point by the excesses of their gov'ts, the carnage will be truly awful.

No wonder that priority one worldwide is the stamping out of the right of private citizens to own firearms.

These people hearken back to the fate of Il Duce or Ceausescu in Roumania or John Doe in Liberia and see history being re-enacted once again.

Uncle Nasty

Anonymous said...

" Anonymous said...

I shul also add to that what togo quotes in an earlier comment: "When Edward Benes, supported by the allies, entered Prague on Sunday, May, 13th, 1945, German citizens were burned alive in his honour at St. Wenceslas Square."

who are we (the West) yo look down on ANYONE!!!"

I feel that we have all the right in the world to look down on the excesses of the third world as we -- exclusively -- are capable of witnessing these atrocities and judging them. Pretty much all of the third world (rather like liberals) can never acknowlege or even contemplate the possibility that their actions may be utterly wrong.

Uncle Nasty

Anonymous said...

what nobody here is mentioning is the effect on the people who did it and witnessed it. how cud any child or young woman wh saw that, and enjoyed it, be not damaged or warped in some way?

Anonymous said...

Dear God - how can ANYONE find justification for an act like this?

Anonymous said...

it's because people don't do things like that anymore, that the West is in the state it's in

Anonymous said...

Yea, I always wondered about the Holocausts at Waco and Dresden etc. - the real ones that is. What gods were the "burnt offerings" to? Burke had the answer many years ago: "the first liberal was the devil."

IsraeliEejit said...

Savant, off-topic but here's a must-see from our Muslim friends. A chilling video that every Westerner should see:

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/250/0/2027.htm

MEMRI's home-page for lots of other goodies:

http://www.memritv.org/

Albeus Ergo Cogito said...

@anony 11.32 who declaimed:"Dear God - how can ANYONE find justification for an act like this?"

Easy. Spend some time in Black Africa...
I just love these libby Europeans with no experience of the nature of the beast. And how I look forward to the day when they realise its too late to turn back the clock...!

Hope I live to see it, but being resident in SA, with the highest murder rate in the world, I'm not too sure I will.
Btw, hope to see you folk here with the 2010 world soccer cup! Grin.

Anonymous said...

this reminds me of the question 'would you have murdered hitler when he was young if you knew what he was going to do?'

murder wud have been a 'crime' but the net effect wud have been good.

Anonymous said...

So we're whining liberals if we object to burning prisoners alive, are we? In that case, I AM a whining liberal!

Anonymous said...

To whining liberal I'd say, you'd have a different tune if the savage in question had chosen one of your kith and kin as a victim. It's easy to bleed on another man's wound.

SAVANT said...

Well, well well! 55 comments in 3 days! I never expected this. Some contributors have asked for my personal take.

Well, first let me say that there's been a lot of really insightful comment here, such as has made me change my mind somewhat, or at least firm up what had been unclear opinions.

The big issue for me lies around the balance of good: Does this particularly gruesome rough justice result in other potentila victims being spared?

And if so, does this justify it?

Having read all the comments and reflected, my view is that it doesn't. I say this for two reasons.

First, criminality is discouraged less by the cruelty of the punishment than be the certainty of getting caught and convicted.

If we put more enery into doing that, and as one comment said, dont give any time off for good behaviour, rather added time for being bad, plus a drastic reduction in the number of legal loopholes that can be used, I think the detrrent would be as effective.

Second, to me, the burning alive of a human being in cold blood is simply unconscionable. Whereas I have visited considerable violence in the, ahem, heat of the moment, I personally - literally - couldn't burn a rat alive.

Anyone who partook in this either was damaged, or became damaged by partaking. I ask myslef what I'd feel if my own wife admitted to such a thing. My view is that she'd be a different person to me and I'd never be able to look at her the same again.

So that's my tuppenceworth!

Anonymous said...

Truth is, we are all savage, but some races of people have tried to better themselves. Now it seems our masters are determined to set us back to the Dark Ages, which will end up requiring savagery to prevent them from doing so.

Albeus Ergo Cogito said...

Savant, with respect, these guys do not play by the same rules. That is what is causing the downfall of Western civilisation.
And this is what white Europeans, with their highly developed mores fail to understand.
A truth is not a truth until you experience it. In the African context, with forty percent unemployment, jail is a pleasure. Roof over your head, three squares a day and you are away. Prison is not a deterrent.

Personally, I also could not burn a rat. But a biped simian who raped and murdered a relative...mmmh...too quick a death...
Come to think of it, the death of a thousand cuts would provide infinite more pleasure.

Albeus Ergo Cogito said...

Savant

Further to my previous posts - since the sensibilities of some of these good people were offended, I invite you and your readers to have a look at what black scum are doing to whites in SA.
And its coming to you, courtesy of your cultural enrichers. The Brits have already tasted muti murders....

http://www.africancrisis.co.za/Article.php?ID=47311&

Albeus Ergo Cogito said...

Sorry, link is http://www.africancrisis.co.za/Article.php?ID=47276&

Anonymous said...

I think 'Albeus' has it right. We can't make judgements on what we'd do in the absence of such provocation.

Anonymous said...

One of the most striking facts and mentioned by those here, is that non-whites in general and especially sub-saharan blacks do not have the same standards of morals that we have. That is straight forward fact and liberals fail to understand this basic fact that whites and non-whites are not equal in this regard. Such wooly headed nonsense believing in the mystical equality of all peoples is irresponsible dogma and quite frankly stupid. Yet cultural marxists and rabid maintain these lies despite 100% evidence to the contrary. How much more irrational violence, rape, crimes and murder must western whites put up with until these so called "do-gooders" understand their fallacies?

The sad fact is, they won't.

Anonymous said...

If someone had done that to my child I'd take the greatest pleasure in roasting the bastard, slowly....

SAVANT said...

You're probably right Albeus, and I must admit that if someone were to do that to one of my family I might just luxuriate in toasting him!

Anonymous said...

Ahh, the good ol' days!

18 k@rt said...

from 'Secrets of the Federal Reserve' by Eustace Mullins


Hoover had also carried out a number of mining promotions in various parts of the world as a secret agent for the Rothschilds, and had been rewarded with a directorship in one of the principal Rothschild enterprises, the Rio Tinto Mines in Spain and Bolivia. Francqui and Hoover threw themselves into the seemingly impossible task of provisioning Germany during the First World War. Their success was noted in Nordeutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, March 13, 1915, which noted that large quantities of food were now arriving from Belgium by rail. Schmoller’s Yearbook for Legislation, Administration and Political Economy for 1916, shows that one billion pounds of meat, one and a half billion pounds of potatoes, one and a half billion pounds of bread, and one hundred twenty-one millions pounds of butter had been shipped from Belgium to Germany in that year. A patriotic British woman who had operated a small hospital in Belgium for several years, Edith Cavell, wrote to the Nursing Mirror in London, April 15, 1915, complaining that the "Belgian Relief" supplies were being shipped to Germany to feed the German army. The Germans considered Miss Cavell to be of no importance, and paid no attention to her, but the British Intelligence Service in London was appalled by Miss Cavell’s discovery, and demanded that the Germans arrest her as a spy.



Sir William Wiseman, head of British Intelligence, and partner of Kuhn Loeb Company, feared that the continuance of the war was at stake, and secretly notified the Germans that Miss Cavell must be executed. The Germans reluctantly arrested her and charged her with aiding prisoners of war to escape. The usual penalty for this offense was three months imprisonment, but the Germans bowed to Sir William Wiseman’s demands, and shot Edith Cavell, thus creating one of the principal martyrs of the First World War.

With Edith Cavell out of the way, the "Belgian Relief" operation continued, although in 1916, German emissaries again approached London officials with the information that they did not believe Germany could continue military operations, not only because of food shortages, but because of financial problems. More "emergency relief" was sent, and Germany continued in the war until November, 1918. Two of Hoover’s principal assistants were a former lumber shipping clerk from the West Coast, Prentiss Gray, and Julius H. Barnes, a grain salesman from Duluth. Both men became partners in J. Henry Schroder Banking Corporation in New York after the war, and amassed large fortunes, principally in grain and sugar.

SAVANT said...

18@kart - this is amazing material, but what's the point? You're saying the the Germans and the British deliberately kept the war going. But for what reason? That certain people were making money?

Anonymous said...

The horror here is not in the meting out of justice to a raping murderer: it is in people revelling in the spectacle of another human being's drawn-out torture and hideous death. Ill-becoming to a civilized and upright society.

J. Potgieter

kulak said...

Do you approve of kids on their dads' shoulders wathcing someone being burned alive?Arguably, sub-Saharan Africans are a different species.

So arguably it wasn't a someone, it was a something, and not a cuddly puppy.

Don't be fooled by four limbs and bilateral symmetry. The truth is even the power of speech would not matter much to you if they had six legs and exoskeletons.

Not that I'm in favor of cruelty to any animal. But farmers are less sentimental about these things.

Savant, I cringed as well when I read the account. But until you live yourself cheek-by-jowl with large populations of violent negroids, you're just talking out your ass, no less a sanctimonious idiot than that damn Swede Gunnar.

Yeah, I sure bet you wouldn't have liked to live down there not so long after Reconstruction. Twat.

Do you really approve of what these 'ordinary citizens' did?If that's what it took them to protect their women and children, yes.

And it makes it much harder for those of us trying to defend 'Western Civilisation'.Who is defending? Defend it before whom? I'm on the offensive.

You're not.

Diversity is at best problematic. Forced diversity is so malevolent it is hard to describe.

There is no better proof than this article.

IsraeliEejit said...

Anonymous said:

"One of the most striking facts and mentioned by those here, is that non-whites in general and especially sub-saharan blacks do not have the same standards of morals that we have. That is straight forward fact and liberals fail to understand this basic fact that whites and non-whites are not equal in this regard. Such wooly headed nonsense believing in the mystical equality of all peoples is irresponsible dogma and quite frankly stupid. Yet cultural marxists and rabid maintain these lies despite 100% evidence to the contrary. How much more irrational violence, rape, crimes and murder must western whites put up with until these so called "do-gooders" understand their fallacies?

The sad fact is, they won't."


The same can be said for Arab Muslims who have a totally different culture and set of moral values.
That is why the raping of Scandinavian girls by Muslims has skyrocketed. If these girls are wearing flesh-baring clothes they are "asking for it" and as females, they're inferior anyway.
Furthermore, mob attacks are frequent in many Arab countries: girls are stoned to death by a "righteous" horde for the most trivial reasons.
Also, just look at the way some people have been beheaded on camera - these are things that "normal people" cannot fathom.

Anonymous said...

kulak is like a lot of the South Africans I know - especially the Afrikaaners. All talk and aggression while sliding over the abyss. So you're not 'defending' our civilization, you're on the offensive? Dream on, baby!

Anonymous said...

Some of these posts have changed my views about South Africans. They're as bad as the blacks they profess to despise.

Cathy

18 k@rt said...

18@kart - 'this is amazing material, but what's the point? You're saying the the Germans and the British deliberately kept the war going. But for what reason? That certain people were making money?'


Actually, this was about Edith Cavell, the Great British war heroine, and the reason she was shot! and that it was instigated by her own side to shut her up permanently! the rest is context.

one point the book makes is that; without the creation of the federal Reseve System it would have been impossible to fight the First World War because the European Nations(the French and British) did not have the financial resources to maintain the war. They had to borrow the money from someone.i.e.the Wall Street controlled Federal Reserve System.

war is profitable for someone, and plenty of fortunes were made out of 'war-profiteering'.

Anonymous said...

Some of these posts have changed my views about South Africans. They're as bad as the blacks they profess to despise.

Cathy

Yet another self-righteous moron on a moral pedastal and a woman no less. Get off it. Nowhere I mean nowhere in Africa has there been a stable government with strong law and order and a decent economy then white-ruled apartheid South-Africa. Whites can collectively rule countires properly, blacks can not. Simple fact. While I'm Irish and do not live in SA I do know relatives who have lived there on chariable missions, and the crime is astounding even by their liberal outlook. Blacks have commited some of the most savage inhuman crimes that even the worst serial killer whites dont match up to in proportion. EVen their moral standards are well below that of the West in general. Plus the burning alive of "witches" is not an unfamiliar act in Africa. It's actions that speak louder than words and hot bluff. So your "every bit as bad" codswallop shows ignorance of the true state of affairs in the hostile hell-hole of the new SA or dark -continent.

Anonymous said...

@ IsraeliEejit

"The same can be said for Arab Muslims who have a totally different culture and set of moral values.
That is why the raping of Scandinavian girls by Muslims has skyrocketed. If these girls are wearing flesh-baring clothes they are "asking for it" and as females, they're inferior anyway.
Furthermore, mob attacks are frequent in many Arab countries: girls are stoned to death by a "righteous" horde for the most trivial reasons.
Also, just look at the way some people have been beheaded on camera - these are things that "normal people" cannot fathom."

What do you expect to be done about this then?

Anonymous said...

Civilisation versus Savagery

It is clear that all of us, if we're honest, feel anger and hatred towards those who have wronged us, or ours. The difference between savagery and civilised behaviour is control. Savages react immediately and give in to their evil impulses at every opportunity – often quite gratuitously. The evil impulse that rules the savage is present in all races, and examples of savagery in all races can be given. But as a matter of historical fact, white civilisation has resulted because the self-control impulse among whites has been much stronger, just as the lack of any black civilisation results from the lack of this self-control impulse.

But to maintain civilised status requires that you maintain the self-control impulse, whatever the provocation – otherwise you become the same as your enemy: a savage. I too, am a white South African, and I know the terrible scale of the atrocities perpetrated by blacks – not only today, throughout our history. But their behaviour is never an excuse for us to degenerate to their level. Despite some of the angry comments here, in fact the history of white-controlled SA proves that we kept to the standard of civilisation – adhering to a process of civilised law. This is the only thing that keeps us civilised – if we indulge in savagery, then we are savages – whether white or black.

One important factor in the process of civilisation, is an intelligent and respected older generation which leads. Youth, mostly unreflecting with lots of energy, struggles with self-control and needs direction. Remember the bullying you experienced or observed while at school – the mindless cruelty. I'll always remember – at the end of my first six months in the army – a new intake was about to enter, and some chaps from my intake couldn't wait to bully the new lot – and yet they had just suffered themselves! What goes on in some minds?

The thing is to keep a sense of proportion, something that liberals, (the eternal adolescents), especially struggle with. When you find an example of white savagery – that does not negate the fact that generally whites do not behave like that, and that savage behaviour is MORE common among blacks. (NO not all blacks are savages, either). The NUMBERS in normal every-day life still put whites ahead in the civilisation stakes even if they are not perfect – get that liberals.

Keith_SA

IsraeliEejit said...

To Anonymous @ 08 May 2009 19:34

Your question: "What do you expect to be done about this then?"


I dont expect anything will be done about this, because European countries are being slowly Islamized and goverments are too busy appeasing the Moslims and worrying about "not offending them".

Anonymous said...

IsraeliEejit said...

"I dont expect anything will be done about this, because European countries are being slowly Islamized and goverments are too busy appeasing the Moslims and worrying about "not offending them"."

Let me rephrase that question. What is your solution to this problem, since you feel so strongly about it?

Give anything but a defeatist answer and think carefully about it.

Anonymous said...

What a wonderful start to my day!!!

I walk with a spring in my step.

Anonymous said...

Hmmmm...

Presumably those here who think that this was a bad-thing-but-with-good-consequences will not be moved by the revelation (I'm going by Wiki) that Washington was 'mentally challenged' as we say.

Perhaps that's why you didn't trouble to mention it. Though for some people it might bear on their judgement.

Neither did you mention that between 1882 and 1930, Texas saw 492 lynchings.

I'm not sure where that leaves the lazy thesis that this kind of 'justice' has some kind of deterrent effect.

Anonymous said...

You are kidding right:

"I'm not sure where that leaves the lazy thesis that this kind of 'justice' has some kind of deterrent effect."

I can 100% guaruantee that the 492 lynched between 1882 and 1930 were "deterred" from ever committing another crime.

I remember reading about a case where a man was released from prison after spending ~35 years behind bars for brutally killing a young child in another state. He moves to a different state after release and murders a young girl. Had this man been put to death in the '70s this girl definitely would not have been murdered by this excrement.

Anonymous said...

My point is that despite this horror, people continued doing things that drew down the lynching reaction.

Anonymous said...

Hmmmm - At the comment...

''.....You are kidding right:

"I'm not sure where that leaves the lazy thesis that this kind of 'justice' has some kind of deterrent effect."

I can 100% guaruantee that the 492 lynched between 1882 and 1930 were "deterred" from ever committing another crime...''



I can guarantee you, that intelligent people have tended to use the word 'deterrent' in this context as a 'before the fact' notion.

In other words, 492 people were NOT deterred by each previous barbaric consequence of wrongdoing - therefore, mob justice is not a deterrent. QED

That they didn't commit 'Another crime' (if they ever committed one in the first place) isn't much consolation to victims/families of their ultimate victims anyway, is it ?

We leave aside the racial complexion of all of this - as though that were not relevant indeed.


BTW, that's not my post above this one, though it seems to purport to be me. I think.

Californian said...

Interesting today that in Africa, necklacing (i.e., burning people alive) is a common form of vigilante and terrorist "justice".

Anonymous said...

Nothing new about that. Didn't Winnie Mandela face some allegations in relation to her goons doing the same 20-odd years ago ?

Stompie Seipei, anyone ?

Anonymous said...

Main Entry:
de·ter
Pronunciation:
\di-ˈtər, dē-\
Function:
transitive verb
Inflected Form(s):
de·terred; de·ter·ring
Etymology:
Latin deterrēre, from de- + terrēre to frighten — more at terror
Date:
circa 1547
1 : to turn aside, discourage, or prevent from acting 'she would not be deterred by threats'
2 : inhibit 'painting to deter rust'
— de·ter·ment \-ˈtər-mənt\ noun
— de·ter·ra·bil·i·ty \-ˌtər-ə-ˈbi-lə-tē\ noun
— de·ter·ra·ble \-ˈtər-ə-bəl\ adjective

OK, so explain to me how execution doesn't have a "deterrent affect"? In the example that I provided the child killer definitely would have been "prevented from acting" or "inhibitted" from murdering the young girl 35 years later if he would have been excuted after being convicted of the original crime.

In other words, he would have been deterred.

Anonymous said...

''In other words, he would have been deterred.''

No. He would have been prevented. Prevention and deterrence are not the same.

You may use the dictionary's main definition as you see fit. Though I am perfectly well able to use a dictionary by myself.

But we were talking within the context of crime and punishment, and the concept of 'deterrence' has a more strict meaning in the vocabulary of
crime/justice/sentencing policy than you are admitting.

That is to say - execution for certain crimes as a deterrent to OTHER people committing the same crime.

Nobody is seriously disputing with you that dead people don't commit rape. Come along now.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad the poster @ 23:02 sorted "prevention" and "deterrence". Agreed 100%.

However, these "fringe benefits" are tangential and even nebulous from a practicable standpoint. The death penalty or lifetime incarceration are the PUNISHMENT of a particular person by us, civilized society. Any effect this may have on other would-be criminals is beside the point. It is not at all why we mete out sentences to begin with.

Granted, there probably IS a deterrent effect on some people, and that's swell, but this fact is more of a distraction in any meaningful discussion about crime and punishment.

"Why is society falling apart?" will never be answered by analyzing the function or reverberations of the criminal justice system.

leadpb

Tiswas Palmer said...

Savant, you are a real racist SOB and this was a cowardly attack on ONE MAN by a mob of bastards.
The black man should of got proper justice but the lynch mob is actually classed as a sign of real shame to America.

SAVANT said...

T Palmer - how am I a racist SOB based on this post?

Michael said...

Was this barbaric? I think so.

Having said that I must wonder what some folks here would do when they have barbarians at the gate. Nip out and invite them in for tea while admonishing them to try not to burn down the entire house?

Or perhaps despite being a civilized sort of chap, you might let the dark side out an put some serious hair in the wall.

I suspect in years to come, the debauchery we see on a daily basis in my country, ranging from farm families slaughtered, children gang raped and people arbitrarily butchered in the street will be visited on your own people once you have a sufficient quota of fine africans imported. When that day comes I have a feeling even the most civilised among you will become decidedly medieval.

Californian said...

Well, this is long after the original posting, but remember, in 1993 the US federal government's police forces besieged 80 or so Branch Davidians, a siege which ended with the feds possibly burning out the "compound" and killing those therein by similar horrid deaths.

What used to be done by lynch mobs is now done by uniformed officers.

Sigh.

SAVANT said...

Californian - in fairness, the authirities didn't burn the place down and thereby burn the 'residents'. It was an ill-advised initiative by the 'security' forces, but there's no way they intended mass killing.

Anonymous said...

Research the murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsome from Knoxville Tennessee. Those sorry beasts kidnapped, raped, tortured both, shot Chris 3 times, set him on fire and left him dead on the railroad tracks. They kept Channon and kept raping her (probably sold her off to other beasts because some DNA can't be matched) kicked her privates in, ripped the top lip from her gums, poured bleach down her throat, tied her up and stuffed her in a trashcan in plastic bags to slowly suffocate. She died with her eyes open. Their parents had to sit through a 3-ring circus and watch the autopsy videos 4 times. They were treated like crap. The beasts' families were brought in to plead for the murderers, and they acted like it was a big family reunion and vacation outside taking pictures and shucking and jiving. The courts allowed no pictures of Chris and Channon as kids or even any pictures of them alive, but the monster's pictures as kids were allowed (oh what sweet boys they were) The state of TN has to pay to support these beasts while they enjoy their football and ramen noodle soups, getting all the sex they want because they don't care where they get it. In America these beasts are everywhere and terrible. In Ireland you don't have it so bad, but handling them with kid gloves is not the answer. Live around them awhile and you'll see. I see nothing wrong with stringing beasts like that up. I imagine if they could set fire to Chris, they deserve no less either. Beats my tax dollars supporting their worthless hides until death. They don't even mind prison. Channon was only 21 and Chris 23. They were good kids, in love and on a date. They should be married and having children by now with a full life ahead of them. Don't feel sorry for the worthess beasts. Feel sorry for the victims of worthless beasts.

white4ever said...

anon - the Channon case is the best argument in support of lynching, especially when the law has been emasculated like it is now. Is there any chance of white americans getting back that spirit?

Anonymous said...

white4ever, I think Americans are too fluoridated and brainwashed byt the Jewish media. I don't know many like me, and it's probably because I'm Irish blood and heritage that I'm so outspoken. I couldn't kill an animal, but negroids aren't even up to par with animals and I would have no problem getting rid of them. They are ruining the entire planet. You all must go to VBS.com and watch "The Vice Guide to Liberia". It can also be found on YouTube. They are NOTHING like the rest of us. Pooping and peeing out open on the beaches... even cats cover up their crap, but a negroid doesn't.

Keep them out of the home of my ancestors, beloved Irish. Wake up Ireland and learn your own history! Quit fawning over Elizardbeast before it is way too late for you too! It is too late for America! We are sinking under a swarm of disgust! Everything OUR people did to make this a better place is given to the undeserving masses who just take and take without giving back. We are the slaves, working to support their worthless hides as they have baby after baby. They murder our people and go "Polar Bear Hunting". The media doesn't cover it if it is black on White crime.