Sunday, 11 September 2011

A very lumpy carpet

Observe that large and lumpy carpet. Beneath it rest all explanations for the 9/11 attacks other than the Official Cover-up version. I’ve made it my business over the last week or so to scour the MSM for references to such alternatives. In vain. The cover-up has been total. It's a non-issue.

Now I’m not just talking about the typical lamestream media that we’ve all come to know and hate, the BBCs, CNNs, New York Times of this world. I’m also referring to supposedly independent sources, or at least those hostile to the Neocons and Israelis such as Russia Today and even Al Jazeera. Nothing. Nada.

What about the ultimate expose of the 9/11 Commission’s inadequacies, The Eleventh Day? I’ve repeatedly heard about this ‘exhaustive study’ always mentioning the ‘600 pages of detailed research’ which ‘leaves no stone unturned'. I’ve heard one of the authors interviewed, and she went out of her way to belittle the official version.

Good.

But what were the alternative explanations? Ah well, like, the FBI and CIA and so on didn’t co-ordinate properly, plus a few more anodyne platitudes. All the unanswerable questions, some of which I raised here, remain unanswered. That's not correct. They weren’t even asked in the first place. Take, for example Larry Silverstein, the guy who admitted to talking down Building 7, before hastily withdrawing the admission. He has one entry in the Index. By way of contrast, many of the minor ‘hijackers’ get scores of entries. Nothing to see here, everybody move along now. This is incredibly effective. A supposed tour de force classed as the ultimate expose, throwing a few scraps to the mob but keeping the real plot hidden.

I’m just open-mouthed in my admiration for the span and depth of Their control. They have defined the narrative, and even more amazingly have defined that which cannot be mentioned. Everyone across the world duly steps into line. Far from the plot unravelling, it seems it’s going to become a moot issue. Amazing and frightening. And it shows what we’re up against.

Boy, oh boy!

Finally, a question. Who knows what? Surely GW Bush wouldn't condone such a thing, bad and all as the fucker is? Cheney might. But what about all the others at the top of the US power structure, the 'think tanks' and the 'investigative journalists? They must be - have to be - aware of all the evidence that screams of Israeli involvement. Surely they cannot be so cynical as to knowingly go along with this charade?

Or can they?

109 comments:

Anonymous said...

yeah and lee harvey oswald had circus midgets on the grssy knoll.

Martinus said...

Israeli involvement??? Sorry to say Savant, but this is an awful article. Yes, there are most certainly hidden cockroaches that have yet to crawl out of the proverbial woodwork, a 3rd force involvement, if you will. But to speculate on the involvement of Israel in one of the modern world's worst examples of Islamic violence is plainly quite silly. I assume you've been to Israel and met Israeli jews yourself; let me tell you, I have. Their government has its hands full, extremely full with the damn Arabs, with their image in Europe, with keeping their innocent citizens safe from attacks coming from the Philistine territories. Say what you will about western Jews, but I guarantee you, the Israeli government is too busy with their own near insurmountable problems to be scheming and plotting new and horrible ways to destabilise the west. I have a close (politically/militarily connected) friend who lectures at Haifa uni, and the things that she tells me, and has shown me...I thought it was the liberal loonies that hated Israel.

Herod said...

Have you taken your medication today Savant?

Anonymous said...

Garden variety truther mental illness.

Anonymous said...

Have to agree most strongly with the first 3 comments.Martinus says it all.

I'm sick to death of all conspiracy theories but particularly Israeli involvement in 9/11.

How anybody could believe that secrecy could be maintained in a "conspiracy" of this magnitude is beyond belief.

Many here will agree with you Savant but this is an appalling piece of drivel.

However,I defend to the death your right to say what you wish.Well,not quite to the death,but I would write a letter to the papers.

mr.a

Herod said...

The reason they weren't mentioned was because they weren't worth a mention. All have been analyzed to death and all found wanting.

SAVANT said...

Ok, I'm taking a bit of stick on this post. Needless to say, nothing specific about the points I make, just a superficial dismissal.

If you nay sayers had taken the time to read the link I referred you'd have read of a number of unanswered issues.

Here are a few more:

() WTC 7. How did it collapse? No rational explanation. It was reportrd as collapsed by the BBC BEFORE it colllapsed. And Larry Silverstein said - on TV - that he odered it to be 'pulled' down. Then it was said to have collapsed from the heat! Give me a BREAK!

() The 'dancing Israelis' I referred to. They had to know in advance - they admitted it, FFS!

() The warnings that employees of the Israeli-owned Odigo IM company were warned in advance, enabling them to escape. Nobody denies this.

Now, sorry for more caps but: HOW CAN THESE OCCURANCES BE EXPLAINED AWAY?

Answer: They cannot. Hence they become non-subjects which everyone becomes afraid to touch.

PreatorianXVI said...

Savant, all involved have been bought and paid for and that includes their silence.

Anonymous said...

Savant.

Are you saying that two very large airliners were NOT flown into the Towers?

If no they were not,then I can no longer believe believe the evidence of my own eyes.I watched it live on TV.Pre-prepared CGI forgeries?.

If yes they were,then those two airliners striking the Towers are for me, a perfectly adequate explanation for the collapse of the Towers.

mr.a

Franz said...

Actually I have trouble imagining Blackwater operatives rigging the twin towers for detonation in plain sight of thousands of people.

What I CAN very well imagine is that when the first reports about a large terror cell taking flying lessons came in, some people deliberatly looked the other way.

People beholden to Cheney or the Bush family or the Israelis. There probably are a few of those in the CIA, NSA, FBI and the rest of the alphabet soup.

Such people might just have an interest in a huge terror-strike and the ensuing spending-bonanza involved in erecting a police state.

There is certainly a difference between carrying out a false flag attack and just looking the other way at a convenient time. That being said, I suspect some level of foul play was involved.

God knows the federal government of the USA and their contractors have commited every crime under the sun in the last decade. I just can't - for the life of me - image their hands to be squeaky clean in this one instance.

Anonymous said...

Israeli, Russian and French intel warned the Bush Administration of a big impending attack. Being the complacent, arrogant fucks that we know they are, they ignored it. Conspiracy theorists ignore the elephant in the room: the laxity, stupidity and carelessness of Bush and co.

JP

Anonymous said...

It's funny how just the mention of jewish involvement of 911 sends the jews into a hissy fit.
Good post, Savant and there is definite israeli involvement on the 911 attacks.
911 has brought on American involvement into the ME, that was the point.
And anyone with any bit of commonsence knows that the buildings were brought down in a controlled demolition.
Google building seven of just watch
this video:http://rememberbuilding7.org/wp-content/w3tc/pgcache/_index.html.gzip

So if the buildings were brought down, who brought them down.
Cave dwelling arabs? I doubt that.
911 was an inside job.

SAVANT said...

Savant.

Are you saying that two very large airliners were NOT flown into the Towers?

Mr. a. - where did you get the idea that I did? I said no such thing. Let me be clear. There are certain UNDISPUTED FACTS that I have mentioned which, if not explained away on some basis, show Israeli involvement in 9/11.

That's ALL that I'm saying. On the other hand I'm saying an awful lot. If someone can come up with even a half-decent explanation for those INDISPUTABLE FACTS then I will immediately withdraw my insinuation and proffer a grovelling apology.

However, and this is the interesting things, nobody to my knowledge has. Instead the subject has been swept under the carpet I referred to, and discussion foreclosed.

To those of you disagreeing with me, would you just address the FACTS that I raised. But I'm not holding my breath.

Kevin Rafferty said...

I detect a sense of peevishness on the part of our Savant. And to be honest I can understand why. As he's just said, he did no more than posit a number of difficult facts which need to be answered. For my part, and I'm not a 911 buff, I've never seen them answered either. And yes, I think it's amazing that 280 million people have swallowed the official story with these loose ends about.

Franz said...

What great sport it is to behold the Savant and mr a going at each other.

Now would be the appropiate time to quote (as well as I remember it) a joke the Savant himself has once posted here:

Fearing an imminent French invasion, the English king sends a diplomat to Ireland to ask for help and reinforcements.

The diplomat finds 2000 Irishmen assembled around a bonfire and asks them for their help against the French.

"First we must have a discussion", the Irishmen say. "We'll give you our answer tomorrow."

On the next day, an emissary of the Irish finds the English diplomat and tells him:

"We'll help you out. A thousand men at arms stand ready to fight the French."

"But you were 2000 just yesterday. What happened to the rest?", the English diplomat wants to know.

"They were killed during our discussion."

Anonymous said...

Buildings fall down all the time for no reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=972ETepp4GI&feature=fvwrel

Anonymous said...

It's clear to me most of the commenters here are not aware of the thousands of engineers and architects who have de-bunked the "fact" that three skyscrapers fell in their own foot print within six hours due to an airplane/s.
They fell at the speed of gravity in free fall without any hinderance of structural supports.
Building seven fell perfectly level for no reason what-so-ever.

http://www.ae911truth.org/

I guess all these Phd s are just conspiracy "nuts" too, after all just listen to the media, they always tell the truth.

Simon Q said...

@Savant

You've lost the plot on this article my friend.

Please don't drift away from tangible problems that we ordinarily debate and can perhaps solve.

'nuff said.

jocomo said...

If there were some substance to these allegations one would think that it would have emerged by now? But nothing other than vaporins which Savant now sadly aligns himself with.

Anonymous said...

jocomo,
Plenty of evidence has surfaced, you're just unwilling to look into it.

Anonymous said...

In this video a pilot explains the speed and manuevers of the planes on 911 were in no way performed by ametuers. Pilots who have served 20 years in the US Navy landng and taking off from aircraft carriers say they couldn't fly those planes in that advanced manor.

What many don't know is that the planes were hauling ass performing turns and altitude drops that pushed the aircraft to their limits.
Pretty good for a bunch of sand niggers who had never flown these jets before.

Also the attack on the Pentagon is near impossible. To level a jet at ground level at that speed and hit square into the building is next to impossible, especially for an ametuer pilot with adrenaline pounding. The terrain on the ground leading up to the Pentagon is hilly.

There are so many flaws in the offical story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iToxQVq-Lg&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iToxQVq-Lg&feature=player_embedded

Martinus said...

Anon 20:54, I'm giving a bit away here, but I'm a civil/structural engineer. I may not have a Phd, but I can promise you, flying a plane into a skyscraper is gonna bring the bitch down!

@Savant, what proof is there of Israeli involvement? The fact that they were aware that something was going down? I suspect most of the intelligence agencies on the planet were aware of it, the Allahu Akba_rs are not known for keeping their plans secret, sand-kaffirs are not the brightest. And if Israel had special knowledge, don't you thing that the reason might just possibly be that MOSSAD earns its bread and butter by monitoring Islamists, their sworn enemies as opposed to western agencies who go out of their way to be politically correct and not 'stereotype' Muslims and rather frisk Granny Liza at the airport than Hassan??? I suspect that the Israelis warned their strongest, most powerful and most giving (financially, we know how the Jews like their money) ally i.e. USA, about the imminent attack. I further suspect that some State Department moron did not take it seriously enough (either that or something far more sinister) to warn the upper echelons. Then the Israelis proceeded to warn their own companies and protect their interests as anyone would.

While I believe that there are certain things in this world that are plotted by dark and shadowy forces, I do not believe that this was one of them. I do, however, believe that the American (and European) government/s has taken full advantage of this atrocity to introduce far more draconian ways of herding, monitoring and controlling the masses. This is not sweeping the issue under the carpet, but logically I cannot understand the gain a country like Israel would receive.

john said...

There are tons of substance available to Mr Savant's statements ; it is OBVIOUS that the 9/11 thing was a mossad operation, aided and abetted by the CIA and ranking officials in the government. Only a blind, and incredibly naive person could miss this.
Face it - the US military has become the 'thug arm' of the israeLIE gov't, and the ranking officials, as well as judiciary, are bought and paid for. All while our tax dollars are given to them as 'foreign aid' and military equipment given to support their terrorist activities.
The mossad involvement is so plain, that I can't believe anyone with an IQ larger than their waist size would even question it. Much less readers of this blog. Their description of us as 'dumb goyim' is, apparently, even apt amongst those of us who would normally "see" things more clearly. Amazing.

Bemused stare said...

Lots of stuff about that smells bad.

Leaving aside buildings that get such a fright they fall down, I find it curious how little wreckage was found of those planes compared to other plane crashes in history.

As to who may have been involved, lots of suspects and no chance of pinning it on anyone.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

yeah and lee harvey oswald had circus midgets on the grssy knoll.

Thanks, pal. Your shining and insightful contribution to the debate has overwhelmed us all. We kiss the hem of your robe. You may fuck off, now.

One of the most enduring images (for me) of 9/11 was not the people falling from above, the airliners smacking into the buildings or the flawless implosions (yes, I said "implosions") of the structures as they settled neatly into their own footprints. No, none of that.

For me the most enduring image was of a pristine passport sitting neatly on a pile of rubble on a New York pavement, with the caption underneath saying that this was the passport of one of the ayrabs. the other one was of a rental station wagon -- purported to to have been rented by one of the other ayrabs -- in an airport parking lot with -- (get this) an instruction manual on piloting jet aircraft on the front seat.

Both these images were published in the South African Citizen and Star newspapers the day after 9/11 (12th September 2001). It was at this stage that I began to smell a big, fat, fucking rat.

You are going to tell me that a handfull of camel jockeys WHO NEED INSTRUCTION BOOKS ON FLYING ('scuse the caps) are going to hijack three (or four) passenger aircraft and not simply spiral them into the ground? That these goatfuckers are going to fly sophisticated and complicated aircraft for tens of miles into two buildings with pinpoint accuracy?

You are going to tell me that two aircraft smack into two buildings which erupt in balls of flame, and that a passport -- one assumes in the hand luggage, or the shirt pocket perhaps of one of the hijackers ... leaps free (with a mighty bound, one assumes), avoids the smoke, flame and chaos of impact and subsequent explosion, flutters out of the building, down to the pavement and plops itself down, untorn, unscorched, on a handy pile of rubble to be fucking PHOTOGRAPHED?

Why do I go on about silly passports, when there are far greater questions unanswered in the 9/11 theatre? because it is these tiny little things that get lost in the shuffle. The little nagging questions that put the lie to the whole narrative -- that tug at the sleeve and will not go away.

Just like the full report on the 1963 Kennedy assassination and the biography (with photo) and capture of Oswald published in a New Zealand newspaper ... about twenty hours too soon.

Cheers
Uncle Nasty

PS.

Are you saying that two very large airliners were NOT flown into the Towers?
If no they were not,then I can no longer believe believe the evidence of my own eyes.I watched it live on TV.Pre-prepared CGI forgeries?.
Mr. a


Ooh, big fat "straw man" argument there, Mr a.

Bring it on, Lads. This could be a rip-snorter of a thread. In the words of 10cc. "Blood will flow ..."

UN

Anonymous said...

it was a cheap built building, the empire state building had a bomber fly through it in latter days of ww11 and it took out the catholic charities on the 79th floor, conspiracy here? the empire was 4 brick thick with a i beam frame around it, the wtc did not , floors 6 inches thick and other steel with a unknown tensel strenght, steel expanded from excessive heat, bulged out and flooors pulled away from the walls, pancake down. end of story,also no circus midgets seen in area before or after the fact.

Anonymous said...

It appears the Hasbarats and some gullible supporters of said group are coming fast & furious at Savant for having even broached the possibility of a jewish connection.

1946 - King David Hotel, move along, nothing to see here.

1967 - USS Liberty, move along, nothing to see here.

2001 - nothing to see here, move along, "our hands are squeaky clean on this one".

....there's much more.

...and Incog Man has a few things to say HERE.

T. O . Meehan said...

Savant, I'll just address the twin towers collapse.

The towers were not built like other skyscrapers. Due to their extreme height they relied on a tough flexible exterior skin rather than heavy interior girders for structural support. A building built in this way can withstand the powerful force of wind by flexing. But if you compromise the outer skin and introduce a very hot fire, the floors can warp out of shape and lose contact with the strong exterior skeleton. They then pancake due to lack of support. Once one or two fall they carry the rest with them.

kulak said...

I still have the Fox News clip about the Israeli art students rounded up post 9-11.

And I have shown it to me daughter. :)

Kids have a lot learn -- and less to unlearn.

Re: WT7. It's almost common knowledge in the US that it was demolished.

But, Savant, 9-11 is peripheral and unimportant.

I've been to NYC several times. Last time 2 yrs ago.

I have almost nothing in common with New Yorkers. NYC is an outpost of the turd world. Got nothing to do with me and mine.

So, while I think elements in the Israeli and US government probably (~70% chance?) had a hand in it, at the end of the day, who really cares who did 9-11?

It's too bad that a large number of people died.

But the dead of NYC are not MY dead.

OT: Sci-fi fans, check out The Ties of Earth, starts on page 119.

Anonymous said...

Architects and Engineers for 9/11 have made some great presentations about the physics of the 'fall' of the three buildings. Over 1600 + architects and engineers have called for a new investigation. They are joined by professional pilots, military pilots, retired military, including a US General; all call for a new investigation because the physics of the event are not explained by the official 'conspiracy' theory.

These people have nothing to gain and a lot to lose by coming forward.

I'm a builder by trade. I've watched structural steel buildings being constructed. The structural steel is like skeleton. most of it should have remained standing.

I don't know if Israel was involved in 9/11. Dr. Alan Sabrosky, an ex-Marine and former head of the US Army War College believes so. So don't let the knee-jerk comments from the supporters of the official story bug you. It's hard to question 9/11 because of where it may lead.

Andreas said...

What makes me think there was not a conspiracy is that the perpetrators, if found out, would suffer such a terrible retribution. Same goes for Israel. If it was found out that they enabled it then the full wrath of the American people would descend on them. Not worth the risk in my view.

puma said...

 Andreas said...
What makes me think there was not a conspiracy is that the perpetrators, if found out, would suffer such a terrible retribution. Same goes for Israel. If it was found out that they enabled it then the full wrath of the American people would descend on them. Not worth the risk in my view.

---------------

That is a good point. 

Zionists must feel invulnerable then. They got away with the USS Liberty attack, with a US President ordering US rescue fighter aircraft to turn back to allow the Israelis to finish off the job. That was 40 plus years ago. 

Zionists control the media and at the time of 9-11 they controlled all the key players that would be involved in any investigation of it.

The awful truth looks very much like we are being lied to on a massive scale. 

SAVANT said...

I say again - the naysayers don't answer the questions I raised! They create a separate straw man and answer that. I repeat: Explain the celebrating Israelis, WT7 being 'taken down' (and announced as such by the BBC even before the collapse), the prisine passport of the hijacker found at the scene and the warnings given to Odigo.

We're going around in circles here guys.

Anonymous said...

Andreas said...

What makes me think there was not a conspiracy is that the perpetrators, if found out, would suffer such a terrible retribution. Same goes for Israel. If it was found out that they enabled it then the full wrath of the American people would descend on them. Not worth the risk in my view.

Can't agree, here, Andreas. The state America's in right now and has been for several decades now, Chairman Zero could sodomise Hilary Clinton live on CNN -- or, now that I stop and think, more likely the reverse -- and not raise an eyebrow. The apathy of the Great Unwashed is total.
Check this out for something really thought-provoking:-

http://www.majorityrights.com/uploads/al-Suqami-passport.jpg

or this:-
http://www.majorityrights.com/911.who

You'll like this one, It's got pictures.

A few quotes: ODIGO (Israeli instant messaging service)—at least two employees of ODIGO received an I.M. warning of an imminent attack 2 hours before the first plane hit the WTC tower. ODIGO had its office two blocks from the WTC. No ODIGO employee passed the warning to U.S. authorities. The I.P. of the person who sent the I.M. was passed on to the FBI, but the FBI never revealed what happened to the investigation. ODIGO had its R&D facilities in Herzliya, Israel, close to Mossad’s headquarters.

Shortly after 9/11, ODIGO was absorbed by Comverse, another Israeli company, and within a year, five Comverse executives profited to the tune of $267 million from insider trading. Through Israeli venture capital funds (Cedar fund, Stage one ventures, Veritas venture partners, etc.), Mossad spawns dozens of software companies doing business with the U.S.

September 11, 2001 Airport Security—ICTS—in Jewish hands
The Airport Security where the hijacked planes took off from was in charge of ICTS, an Israeli company, most of whose employees happened to be ex-Shin Bet officers; it was headed at the time by Ezra Harel, JEW, and Menachem Atzmon, JEW. ICTS was also in charge of airport security when the shoe bomber, Richard Reid, boarded a plane and when the underwear bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, boarded a plane.

A few hours before the Patriot Act was voted on, it was edited to make foreign companies in charge of security on 9/11 immune to lawsuits. This would prevent American courts from demanding that ICTS provide testimony or hand over the missing surveillance videos from the airports.

System Planning Corporation (SPC)—remote airplane control technology.
The SPC Corporation provided the flight termination system and command transmitter system, the technology that allows planes to be remote controlled should the pilots be incapacitated or the plane hijacked. It was headed by Rabbi Dov Zakheim.
Zakheim co-authored the PNAC paper on rebuilding America’s defenses, advocating the necessity of a Pearl Harbor-like incident to mobilize America. He served as Pentagon comptroller from May 4, 2001 to March 10, 2004. Two large sums of money disappeared from the Pentagon under him. In the beginning, $2.3 trillion was reported missing by Donald Rumsfeld (September 10, 2001) and later, Zakheim was unable to account for another trillion dollars. Zakheim also had squads of American F-15s and F-16s sold as surplus to Israel at a fraction of their value.

On May 6, 2004, Zakheim took a lucrative position at Booz, Allen and Hamilton consultants, one of whose clients was a charity said to be a front for Osama bin Laden, and it also offered consultancy to DARPA.


Several weeks back, I posted of the two trillion plus theft from the Pentagon which was announced -- surprise, surprise -- on the 10th September 2001 ... one day before 9/11.
That little tidbit sort of got lost in the shuffle the next day. I wonder why?

Advantage:- Savant.

Your Call,
Uncle Nasty

PS. Keep it up, Lads ... I have LOTS more to toss into the thread.

UN

Anonymous said...

Bemused stare said...

Lots of stuff about that smells bad.

Leaving aside buildings that get such a fright they fall down, I find it curious how little wreckage was found of those planes compared to other plane crashes in history.


Little wreckage? In the case of the fourth plane (the one that smacked into an open field) how about no wreckage at all?

The official story was that, due to the outrageous terminal speed (500+ MPH) that the alloy airframe, steel and titanium engines, and passengers simply vaporised.

Yeah, sure.
UN

PS. I too, had to admire the sensitivities of WTC 7. It's not often that a building will commit suicide as a gesture of solidarity with its murdered comrades.

A very liberal thing to do, I think.

UN

Bemused stare said...

Martinus said...

Anon 20:54, I'm giving a bit away here, but I'm a civil/structural engineer. I may not have a Phd, but I can promise you, flying a plane into a skyscraper is gonna bring the bitch down!


Martinus, for the sake of debate, let's concede you that one. However to grind the same old beans again, what gave Tower7 such a fright that it fainted like a lady in a 1950's drama?

Now the Pentagon. A jet hits a wall so hard that it is reduced to tiny unrecognizable pieces of scrap.The fuselage (relatively soft due to weight constraints) punches through leaving a 16 foot(?) hole. The six ton engines however, made of titanium and other hardened metals, don't scratch the Dulux Weathergard.

Shaunantijihad said...

"Savant.

Are you saying that two very large airliners were NOT flown into the Towers?

Mr. a. - where did you get the idea that I did? I said no such thing."


You are just too polite, good Savant, so I'll say it.

Yes, Mr a, I am saying three very large airliners were not flown into three towers. But I applaud the way you nicely cover over the numbers. 2 planes. 3 towers.

Now, you show me evidence of three planes crashing into WTC1, 2 and 7. Go on, show me.

Anonymous said...

Trying to answer these absurdities is like trying to answer the old one "Have you stopped beating your wife?.Yes or no?."

But anyway,I won't claim to be able to answer inventions,only what I know.

I saw an interview with the female BBC newsreader who prematurely announced the collapse of the Towers,I can't remember her name.She explained it was a slip of the tongue-the magnitude and speed of the events got to her.Videotape of her announcement bears this out.When asked if she knew about these events beforehand,she got(a most inappropriate,I thought),fit of the giggles at the suggestion.

I had never heard of Larry Silverstein before reading about him here.

The "dancing Israelis" Jaysus!.Maybe they were holding a barmitzvah.

I'm not being facetious.

Its as logical an explanation as that of Mossad agents dancing in the streets of Manhattan.The only dancing I saw was in Gaza.They were quickly told to desist.

I'm no structural engineer,but I know metals.I know metals very very
intimately.The effect of heat and stress on metals was my profession for many years.And I was extremely good at my job.

The instant those aircraft hit the Towers,there was no probability of collapse.There was certainty.Inevitability.

Thousands of litres of burning aviation spirit turned 30 year old steel-improperly maintained steel from what I know-,into a substance with no more strength than hot plastic.

I repeat:collapse was inevitable.

And yes Uncle N,this post is going to turn into a snorter.I'm looking forward to it but I'm tired of typing now.

mr.a

hoosier said...

mr. a. - with all due respect, you seem to know SFA about anything related to 9/11. I'm really not sure why you're commenting at all. I'm even more amazed that, from a postion of such profound ignorance, you can definitively pronounce that there was no conspiracy.

You remind me of what they used say about Harry Truman - often worng but never unsure.

Madame X said...

You're on the right track, Savant. Don't listen the hasbara crew. By the way don't forget that Larry Silverstein or whatever the F^%$ his name is conviently leased and insured the towers months before 911 for a billion dollars. AND Isreali ZIM shipping relocated from their tower offices months before 911...how convient..

Bemused stare said...

The instant those aircraft hit the Towers,there was no probability of collapse.There was certainty.Inevitability.

Thousands of litres of burning aviation spirit turned 30 year old steel-improperly maintained steel from what I know-,into a substance with no more strength than hot plastic.

I repeat:collapse was inevitable.

mr.a


I will concede you that.

Now, about Tower7. Suicide as suggested by Uncle Nasty?

The pentagon. The plane poked its nose through an armored wall and instantly vaporized?

blueboy said...

mr. a. - I'm with hoosier andthe others here. If you haven't heard of Larry S. before now you shouldn't be commenting on the subject. Period.

Shaunantijihad said...

""I repeat:collapse was inevitable."

mr.a

I will concede you that.""

Sorry, bemused, but I will not concede that.

Mr a, are you suggesting that "improperly maintained steel" (!) has a lower melting point than new steel? Let's run with that shall we?

Steel has a melting point of 2500F and jet fuel has a maximum burning temp of 1,500F, though in a confined building with less than perfect supply of oxygen that temp goes down. But let's ignore that stick with your proposition that the "improperly maintained steel" melted at 1,500F, the highest temp of burning jet fuel.

Now, the towers were built in 1973, but let's say the metal was forged in 1971 to be generous. So, in 30 years, you are seriously proposing that the melting point of the metal went down by 1,000F?

"I'm no structural engineer,but I know metals.I know metals very very
intimately.The effect of heat and stress on metals was my profession for many years.And I was extremely good at my job."

Phew! I thought for a moment you were saying that steel has the incredible and previously unknown quality of having it's melting point decreasing at a rate of 33 degrees F per annum!

Hey! I think mr a has discovered where Mercury comes from! It apparently comes from 75 year old steel which suddenly becomes liquid at room temperature. Kind of metal fatigue, I suppose.

RegThe Hedge said...

Me too Mr A. Not knowing about Larry Silver. indicates you don't know much about events. After that revelation I can't see how your opinion should count.

Forwhat it's worth. I think the Israelis probaby knew what was going on and I think they probaby warned the US. My guess is someone in the US admin decided it would be better if events played out.

I think there were several subplots. Silver was tipped off by Israel and took appropriote action and building 7 housed tax accounts of some very rich people who defrauded the rsa. When 7 fell certain problems for rich people went away.

Try tying up the oddities with sub pllots based on the assumption that the attack was common knowledge for the inside crowd. It really works.

Anonymous said...

Everybody who debates the physics of the event sounds like a rabbi.

Jus' sayin'.

Anonymous said...

No Shaun,I did not say the steel melted but I'll agree,I could have put it better.I'll say more on that later.
There is bound to be a later on this one.

@Hoosier.

I said at the start of my post that I would comment only on what I know.I don't claim to be an expert on 9/11.

Even less,do I claim to be an expert on the conspiracy.

How can I possibly be an expert on something that never happened?

@blueboy.Disagree with me all you wish,thats fine by me.Its everybodys right to disagree with anyone else.But please do not try to limit the parameters of MY freedom of speech.
By doing so you are denying the raison d'etre for the existance of this Blog.

mr.a

Anonymous said...

In Plane Sight 4 of 6 left hand side of the towers a huge plume of white smoke from what exactly?

CNN on the day announced that the Pentagon was attacked by a truck bomb parked outside.

Franz said...

@ UN and others remarking on "camel jockeys" flying planes

As it happens, I know some pilots. One of them flying commercial airliners for a living. None of these have never expressed any doubt about the narrative of Arabs taking over those planes and flying them into buildings.

Flying is easy, they tell me. Getting the plane back on the ground in one piece is the hard part. Since that was never the objective in the case of 9/11, the "camel jokeys"-behind-the-controls-narrative is not so absurd as it seems at first glance.

As I said before: I can't imagine that the hands of the socipaths in Washington (or Tel Aviv, as some suggest) are comletely clean with respect to 9/11.

But it seems highly unprobable that a James-Bondesque plot of remote-steering planes into buildings pre-rigged for detonation would proceed without ANY leaks whatsoever.

Remember folks: This is the federal government you're talking about. Whatever plot they hatch is by definition bound to be totally or partially fucked up by some barely functional affirmative action hire in their ranks.

They fail at everything they do. Why should they have suceeded in devising and carrying out this monstrous plot without any glitches or leaks? It would be a severe aberration to the way governments usually operate. Truly.

Martinus said...

@Bemused stare, I just finished watching the videos of WT7 's collapse. One thing they all have in common is the fact that their view is aerial and from one side only, dusk and smoke obscures the foundations. I'm not overly familiar with the structure of the WT centres, but when the lower levels of the neighbouring tower ballooned outwards, it is not inconceivable that some of the struts or support columns were damaged by the force of the neighbours collapse, seismically or otherwise. But as I said, I don't deny that there is another hand at play here. Where I take issue is the suggestion that the Israelis played a part. I have already explained (or rationalised) why I think they had prior knowledge. I just don't see them deliberately causing shit for their most useful ally, the most powerful country in the world (pre-Oboona). Granted, Jews in the west cause crap for us (whites) with their promotion of multiculti bull in Hollywood, and their hyperlefty organizations like the ACLU, which is basically the devil incarnate. But I firmly believe and know that the Israelis are a different breed, and people that I am generally very fond of.

Anonymous said...

Mr a is a tool, LOL.

Dr. Wassell said...

Haven't commented for a long time but let me have a quick word. Martinus, Israelis indeed are an admirable people, but I don't think Savant, or anyone that I know of, is saying that this attack was representative of Israel. If there was some involvement, and I'm not convinced, it would be a tiny coterie in key positions.

Anonymous said...

Shaun's a tool; mr. a is just not sufficiently informed.

Anonymous said...

Moral of the story:

Jews are (or should be) BORING.
Enemies? Mostly. Sacred? Never.

B-O-R-I-N-G.

911 is (or should be) BORING. US and/or Israeli collusion? Yeah maybe.

BORING.

911 Luftballoons and a woman in a red dress.

(Hey, that could be a band name.)

Bad Savant! Bad!

Bemused stare said...

Remember folks: This is the federal government you're talking about. Whatever plot they hatch is by definition bound to be totally or partially fucked up by some barely functional affirmative action hire in their ranks.

They fail at everything they do. Why should they have succeeded in devising and carrying out this monstrous plot without any glitches or leaks? It would be a severe aberration to the way governments usually operate. Truly.


Franz, how long did it take for the truth about that little "Gulf of Tonkin incident" to come out?

Think of it from this point of view, the balls ups we've seen, where seen precisely because they were a balls up. Whose to say that there are not some things they manage to do without being caught? We assume here of course that these folks are actually not that pathetic that they can't get out of bed without sustaining an injury.

Now as to the mechanics of how this was brought about, and who may have had a hand in it. I have no idea. That however does not leave me feeling that all is well and nothing happened here so let's all just move along.

Here are a few questions I have.

1)How do massive airliners crash and leave virtually nothing left to even be sure it was an airplane?

2)How does, what is arguably, the best outfitted air force in the world put up a performance that would have the Zimbabwean air force hanging their heads in shame?

3) Why did ATC seem to think it was not pressingly urgent to notify the air force that there was something amiss?

4) Why were certain individuals as far away as the west coast advised that flying might not be a good idea that day? Yet no who worked at the WTC was told that taking a parachute to the office might be a plan?

Anyone who wants to, please feel free to continue the list.

Anonymous said...

Jews boring? 9/11 boring? You must lead a very exciting life!

nemesis said...

Franz - I agree about the Fed's ability to organize thing. But you assume that it was the federal government itself that was involved in the conspiracy (if indeed there was one). However, I think nobody on this thread is suggesting that. Rather than a small group of key individuals, linked with elelemnts in the CIA and maybe the FBI. Such a conspiracy would be much easier to organize and to keep secret.

Anonymous said...

Dear Savant,
The immediate insulting attacks on your post show how dangerous any honest discussion of 911 is to the obvious suspects.

Robert in Arabia

Anonymous said...

(Scene: September 10th, 2001. Israeli Embassy in New York, pre-Wikileaks)

RABBI GOLDENSTEIN: Oy! Are ze plans den in place, my faithful shabbas goy?

DONALD RUMSFELD: What is thy bidding, my master? Yes, the world shall indeed be duped into believing that your sworn enemies, the oil-rich rag-heads who own this Administration, are to blame!

GOLDENSTEIN: And are all sworn to secrecy in this? Are zo key aychents in place?

RUMSFELD: Here they are - three of our finest Federal operatives. They will be in charge of running the operation.

TRASHANDRA WASHINGTON: Yo! Jew-boy! We beez lookin' fo'ord to knockin down dem bigass skyscrappaz, yo!

MIGUEL ILLEGAL HERNANDEZ:¿Perdoname, señores? No entiendo el ingles. Estoy simplesmente buscando trabajo.

WONG FU: Shing-shong shoo! Mee chow! I am gay!

RUMSFELD: So you see, my master, it is with pride that the Federal Government locates its finest human resources for this nefarious mission! We shall plunge the world into neverending war! Bwahahahaha!

GOLDENSTEIN: Excellent! And once you have invaded and destroyed Iraq, there will be no buffer state between Israel and an aggressive, nuclear-armed Iran! And the eventual Islamist Iraqi Government will be even less friendly to Jews than is Saddam!

TRASHANDRA: Shee-it!

(Etc. etc. ad nauseum ad absurdum...)

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yuC_4mGTs98 h/t max keiser 911 in 5 minutes

Robert in Arabia

Anonymous said...

Savant,mr.a here,.
My last entry seems to have disappeared into the ether.
But never mind,it was pretty boring and would'nt have changed anybodys mind here anyway

I hav'nt led a sheltered life,far from it,but in all honesty,I swear to God I was not fully aware of the passions this subject aroused.

Oh I knew about the debate but always assumed that it was a few cranks sitting around with nothing better to do.

But,on most other topics,I greatly respect and agree with the opinions of many of the regular contributors here.And I know for certain that THEY are certainly not cranks.

However,my opinion is not going to be changed either,in spite of that respect,so I'm going to withdraw from this debate as gracefully as I can and hopefully re-engage when Savant puts up his next post.But I will read the ongoing postings

But one last thing and I mean this humbly,honestly and without face:I really,really don't get it.

mr.a

SAVANT said...

Mr. a. - I didn't delete any of your comments. As you say, must be lost in the ether.

Shaunantijihad said...

" Anonymous said...
Shaun's a tool; mr. a is just not sufficiently informed.

12 September 2011 16:46"


Thanks for that considered analysis, Anonymous. I am always heartened in a discussion when an antagonist shoots straight past the facts and goes straight for the ad-hominem attack.

WT7 fell at freefall speed, with no plane and no fuel in sight. This is impossible without a force to remove all resistance from the structure, otherwise the structure would exert some force against gravity slowing the descent. This is a physical law. Perhaps Anonymous can come back and call the elementary laws of physics some naughty names, in the hope it will change it's mind?

Here is a simple explanation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP9Qp5QWRMQ

Franz said...

@ Bemused Stare

I do not dispute the fact that all the things you mention seem - at least - odd or outright suspicious.

What I am questioning is the realism of assuming the most complicated and sophisticated scenario. Namely, to simulate a huge Al Quaida operation in the USA and Europe, pre-rig some of the most populated buildings in the world for demolition and finally steer airliners into them by remote.

Complex operations with many participants have a way of being botched - even if the guys carrying them out are top notch.

Here is an example: Assume that you have 20 guys involved in a plot to take down the WTC. All of them do their conspiratorial job mistake-free 95% of the time.

By mistakes I mean such things as getting confused between double identities, logging in to the wrong e-amil account at the wrong time or having a supposedly clandestine conversation overheard by somebody. Really anything that could blow their cover and give the operation away.

20 guys, 95% reliability. When you get them together working on a complex operation, the probability for success without mistakes drops down to 36%.

Involve 30 guys with a 95% reliability and your chance for success drops to 21%

Involve only one weak link, a guy with a reliability of 20%, and your chance for success drops down to 5%.

Unless my math is mistaken, complexity is kryptonite to secret conspiracies.

So I will go on to assume that any possible foul play as regards 9/11 would be much smaller in scale and less cinematic than is commonly assumed.

Just imagine that a single agent is tasked to prepare a sting operation and give a group of Muslims the necessary funds, encouragement and training to fly planes into the WTC.

Before the sting happens, the agent's supervisor tells him to forget about it and let the Muslims go their merry ways. Now you got only two guys involved which equals a much, much higher probability of success.

At least to me, an abandoned sting or somebody looking away at a convenient time seems to be much more plausible than the Alex-Jones-version of events.

PS: Savant, if you are looking for some artwork for this post, go to http://anonops.blogspot.com/ and scroll down a bit. I lol'ed for minutes on end after I saw this.

Anonymous said...

Like Mr a., one of my posts took a stroll into the ether as well. Which is a pity 'cause I regard it as insightful and erudite. But then I would, wouldn't I?

Okay, the gist. Firstly, regarding the "They couldn't keep something that big and as nasty, quiet ... people will find out."

Well, yes. They will find out. We, and many like us, are proof of that. Does it mean anything that we find out? Not a chance.
As someone pointed out, 30% of Americans have no -- and never have had any -- connection to the
internet. Okay, take them out of the equation. Of the remainder, the overwhelming majority use their connection as a handy postbox for email with the occasional wander across the porn sites.

The percentage of people who will actively seek out sites like this and enter (sometimes heated) debate? A minuscule fraction of a percent. We simply don't count.

Secondly, when you control all the media, anything you want quiet, stays quiet. Anything. Anything
you want trumpeted to the world? It will be trumpeted ad nauseum. Amy Winehouse, anyone? Or DSK and the nigretta?

Yea, verily and forsooth, we could have Chairman Zero sodomising Hillary Clinton live on CNN (or, more likely, the other way round) and it would be forgotten by the weekend. Too much other distraction.

Please allow some interesting facts to intrude -- you'll like it. It's got pictures:-

http://www.majorityrights.com/911.who

Some interesting quotes (My emphases) :-

Israeli foreknowledge of 9/11—ODIGO.

ODIGO (Israeli instant messaging service)—at least two employees of ODIGO received an I.M. warning of an imminent attack 2 hours before the first plane hit the WTC tower. ODIGO had its office two
blocks from the WTC. No ODIGO employee passed the warning to U.S. authorities. The I.P. of the
person who sent the I.M. was passed on to the FBI, but the FBI never revealed what happened to the investigation. ODIGO had its R&D facilities in Herzliya, Israel, close to Mossad’s headquarters.

End Part one

Cheers,
Uncle nasty

SAVANT said...

What artwork had you in mind Franz?

Anonymous said...

Begin Part two

September 11, 2001 Airport Security—ICTS—in Jewish hands
The Airport Security where the hijacked planes took off from was in charge of ICTS, an Israeli company, most of whose employees happened to be ex-Shin Bet officers; it was headed at the time by Ezra Harel, JEW, and Menachem Atzmon, JEW. ICTS was also in charge of airport security when the shoe bomber, Richard Reid, boarded a plane and when the underwear bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, boarded a plane.
A few hours before the Patriot Act was voted on, it was edited to make foreign companies in charge
of security on 9/11 immune to lawsuits.
This would prevent American courts from demanding that ICTS provide testimony or hand over the missing surveillance videos from the airports.

System Planning Corporation (SPC)—remote airplane control technology
The SPC Corporation provided the flight termination system and command transmitter system, the technology that allows planes to be remote controlled should the pilots be incapacitated or the plane hijacked. It was headed by Rabbi Dov Zakheim.
Zakheim co-authored the PNAC paper on rebuilding America’s defenses, advocating the necessity of a Pearl Harbor-like incident to mobilize America. He served as Pentagon comptroller from May
4, 2001 to March 10, 2004. Two large sums of money disappeared from the Pentagon under him. In the beginning, $2.3 trillion was reported missing by Donald Rumsfeld (September 10, 2001) and later, Zakheim was unable to account for another trillion dollars. Zakheim also had squads of American F-15s and F-16s sold as surplus to Israel at a fraction of their value.

I repeat:In the beginning, $2.3 trillion was reported missing by Donald Rumsfeld (September 10, 2001)

Now if I -- OR MY COUNTRY -- was in the hot seat for thee point three trillion dollars ($3,300,000,000,000.00 yup) what would I do to get out of it?

The opening day of the battle of the Somme on 1 July 1916 saw the British Army suffer the worst
one-day combat losses in its history, with nearly 60,000 casualties -- for no gain whatsoever.

4000 New Yorkers to gain 3 trillion bucks -- and stay out of the loving arms of Lamarcus in Joliet?
Bargain of the fucking century.

Cheers,
Uncle Nasty.

BTW, Mr. a., come back please. Your opinions are as good as anyone else's. I do not think Savant's site is an exclusive club.

UN

Anonymous said...

Just to lighten things up a bit ...

Go Here:-

http://bussorah.wordpress.com/

This is an oldie but worth repeating, I think
September 12, 2011

I recently asked my friend’s little girl what she wanted to be when she grows up. She said she wanted to be President some day.

Both of her parents, liberal Democrats, were standing there, so I asked her, “If you were President, what would be the first thing you would do?”

She replied, “I’d give food and houses to all the homeless people.” Her parents beamed with pride.

“Wow…what a worthy goal.” I told her. “But you don’t have to wait until you’re President to do that. You can come over to my house and mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my driveway, and I’ll pay you $50. Then I’ll take you over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house.”

She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight in the eye and asked, “Why doesn’t the homeless guy come over and do the work, and you can just pay him the $50?”

I said, “Welcome to the Republican Party.”

Her parents still aren’t speaking to me.


Cheers,
Uncle Nasty

Anonymous said...

We keep saying that governments are packed with incompetent shitbags and could not possibly put together an operation as complex as a black-ops 9/11.

The big flaw there? Not everyone in government or intelligence is a blithering incompetent. Some are actually pretty damn smart ... and pretty damn ruthless.

Do not underestimate them.

Cheers,
UN

john said...

As has been suggested, the US gov't and its eeoc employees would have undoubtedly screwed something up ALL THE MORE reason to look elsewhere...and all roads lead to the israeLIES. Their inbred hatred of us, and their total control of our government, combined with their ruthless efficiency [if nothing else] points solely to them. Hey, they get to vent some anger at "Jacob" and kill a few of us, the jewboy who owns the buildings makes out like a bandit [although Lloyds of London was kinda crimping his style at first] , they get the dumb goy to start another war for their benefit, and the JUDE-ISED christians feel even more sorry for them and send more money to their antiChrist state and organisations. Its a win-win-win situation.
Not to mention the fact[s] that there is empirical evidence out the wazoo connecting them, plus reams of circumstantial and anecdotal evidence to boot. And steel doesnt melt at the heat of burning fuel. Period.

Anonymous said...

Please go here, and read the story of one man's awakening:-

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/

9/12: A Decade Later
Posted on September 12, 2011 by Hunter Wallace


The collapse of the Twin Towers is nothing compared to what lies ahead

It has been ten years since 9/11: the day that everything changed in America.

I vividly remember that morning in September 2001. At the time, I was a sophomore at Auburn University, someone who was just beginning his political awakening, whose racial conservative views were fairly conventional for a 20 year old college student from South Alabama.

I woke up that morning to get ready for my finance class, turned on the news like I did every morning, and found myself transfixed as the “Nineties” came to their fiery historical end.

My initial reaction was identical to that of my peers: Muslim terrorists had attacked America on live television, it was time to retaliate against these jihadists, it was time to conquer the Islamic nations that harbored these criminals and overthrow their illegitimate governments.

For most Americans, 9/11 inspired similar feelings of rage and a thirst for revenge, the bloodlust of which was soon satiated in the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq. But that is not what I remember most about that fateful day in American history.

9/11 was intellectually stimulative: Osama bin Laden’s great act of jihad grabbed the attention of millions, knocked thousands of Americans out of the orbit of their lives, and got lots of people like me interested in politics and current events.

The 9/11 discussion was so fascinating and thought provoking and such a striking contrast with the boilerplate analysis in the mainstream media that thousands of Americans became addicted to the messageboard culture of sharing and swapping their thoughts online in those months.


How many of us have similar stories?

Uncle Nasty

Anonymous said...

Regarding the Pentagon, has there ever been any pictures or video that show a jetliner aproaching or hitting the Pentagon?

Perhaps there are said pictures, I just don't remember seeing any at the time.

Surveillance film from the Pentagon itself or other buildings in the area should have picked up something .

Anonymous said...

Please go here ...

http://nourishingobscurity.com/

scroll to the German handyman ...

Wot, speak German?

And watch the video. You won't believe it

This is, indeed, a handy man to know.

Cheers,
UN

Anonymous said...

Mr. A,
All do respect, but understand the impact of the 911 attacks.

My nation is now at WAR on three differant fronts due to 911. We, as Americans are losing our freedoms on the homefront.

I have a family member that fell for the hoax and joined the Army to go get some payback. He is thoughrly fucked up in the head now from being on the front lines in Baghdad doing door to door raids and just about anythign else that goes along with being MP in the 1st Cav living in abonded buildings and FOBs.

He had a packet of pictures he and his buddies kept from his four tours in Badhdad. They were gruesome to say the least, Soldiers holdng up dead Iraqis by the air posing with them the way a hunter holds the corpse of a deer.

An absolute killing fest went on in Iraq because my country was FURIOUS about the 911 attacks.
We as a nation were duped and used to fight these wars for the benefit of Israel and your damn right many of us Americans are very fucking pissed off about this.

So don't be surprised in the future if Americans who know it was an inside job get offended.

BTW, Franz seems to think we are all stupid over here in the states and our goverment is a bunch of dunces, nothing is further from the truth. Our government is filled with cunning ruthless people, very capable of pulling this off.

Just look at companies such as KBR, Blacwater and Haliburton. Those companies are filled with ex-Navy Seals, ex-Marine Recon guys and so on. The best trained soldiers on the face of the Earth with years of real life combat experience and training in espionage and intelligence gathering.

Don't think people like this don't exist, Franz. Don't think that a rouge faction of such people couldn't have pulled off 911, becuase they did.

Military contractors exist in a strict brotherhood, keeping a secret is not a problem with these guys. Iv'e know a few Seals and they are like brothers to eachother, anyone not in the Teams are outsiders and thats just the way it is.

Anonymous said...

You're welcome Shaun.

Anonymous said...

I am really enjoying this 9/11 whodunnit thing. It's like the old game "Cluedo." I propose that the murderer is Colonel Mustard, with the candlestick in the library.
Let's go completely potty, let's assume that there were no planes at all.

"Has this boy finally lost his marbles?" I hear you exclaim.

Okay ... you won't accept that. Will you accept that no second plane struck the towers?
Check out this video Just over 10 minutes:-

No planes Just manufactured video

http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/the-911-files/no-planes.html

Very interesting. Like Savant, the man just asks some very relevant questions. The most interesting one being "Where did they put the Camera?"

Cheers,
Uncle Nasty

Franz said...

@ Savant

The "never forget" image with the twin towers worked into the caption and all the smiling police-state figures below.

I believe it is the second post from the top.

Anonymous said...

The Pentagon attack - that's the point. THERE ARE NO PICTURES despite the place being covered in security cameras. Neither was there are plane debris and every pilot will tell you it simply was not possible to fly that particular Boeing at that level.

Shaunantijihad said...

Hmm, getting to be too many people called Anonymous here, I'm losing track, oh well...

Anonymous 02:27 "We, as Americans are losing our freedoms on the homefront."

Can't disagree with you there buddy, but I do think we need a philosophical realignment, as in, "We as Caucasians are losing our freedoms..."

Anonymous said...

Savant,

I have spent many years looking into this. I will briefly summarise my conclusions below:

1) The Project for the New American Century - a neo-Con lobby group founded by Kristol and Kagan promoting the Wolfowitz Doctrine - stated that in order for them to be able to utilise the US military machine to challenge regimes hostile to their interests, they'd neeed a 'new Pearl Harbor' to galvanise the US public. That phrase was used in a report published in 2000.

2) Just weeks before 9/11, Larry Silverstein purchased the WTC complex. Prior to this it had been owned by the municipality - that is since it was built in 1972!

3) Larry Silverstein, who used to speak to Netanyahu on the phone each week, didn't breakfast at his Windows of the World restaurant on the morning of 9/11, as he had done every other morning since buying the complex. He was seeing his dermatologist that morning. (see Silverstein exposed vid on YT).

4) Many of those said to have been hijackers were found alive and well living in the Middle East (still on the BBC)

5) There is the evidence of the five Israeli hijackers who appeared on Israeli television stating their mission was to document the attacks.

6) WTC7 was reported to have collapsed by the BBC some 30 mins before it did. It wasn't hit by a plane and collapsed like a controlled demolition. (see 'this is an orange' vid on YT)

7) The 9/11 attacks were spuriously linked to Afghanistan, which itself was then used to challenge another regime hostile to US interests - Iraq.

There's loads more. The Pentagon's a whole other can of worms.

Shaunantijihad said...

Uncle Nasty,

OMG! http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/the-911-files/no-planes.html

That is one mindfnucking video!! How do you find all this stuff? Whatever you do, don't stop!

Now earlier I was jousting a little asking mr a to show me 3 planes crashing into 3 towers, but this vid has shocked even my jaded soul! WHat the hell are we up against?

Anonymous said...

Not only was there no released video surveillance footage of the plane hitting the pentagon ... a place with surveillance video cameras every fifty feet of its perimeter, but the FBI actually confiscated the only exterior video footage known ... the tape from a service station over the road.

A very profitable hour could be spent by watching "911 In Plane Site" which is available on YouTube.

Very calm, very collected, very sane. The presenter saves the best 'till last in that he asks "Has the US govt. ever covered up anything similiar before?"

... and then proceeds to show original local news footage of the Murrah building in Oklahoma where the feds found a second and third bomb unexploded and both even bigger that than the one that actually went off.

This, however, did not fit the FBI narrative of McVeigh, the "angry lone nut" and "gifted, lucky amateur" with his laughable truck full of ANFO explosive.

So, the two extra devices disappear from history and McVeigh fries. Sacrifice at best ... patsy at worst.

Highly recommended.

UN

Shaunantijihad said...

I'm also trying to track down a video deleted by Youtube called, "ALL the planes were make-believe", if anyone can help.

Here is another approach, showing how they forgot to exclude the nose cone coming out the far side of the shot:

http://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A0SO8Zn4NW9OoWYAxEn7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTBncGdyMzQ0BHNlYwNzZWFyY2gEdnRpZAM-?p=911+ALL+the+planes+were+make-believe&ei=utf-8&n=21&js=1&tnr=20

puma said...

Anonymous said...


Just look at companies such as KBR, Blacwater and Haliburton. Those companies are filled with ex-Navy Seals, ex-Marine Recon guys and so on. The best trained soldiers on the face of the Earth with years of real life combat experience and training in espionage and intelligence gathering.

Don't think people like this don't exist, Franz. Don't think that a rouge faction of such people couldn't have pulled off 911, becuase they did.

---------------------

Take a look at this site:

http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book

Bollyn goes into many operational details as to how the Mossad and its partners in the US, planned and carried out the 9-11 attack (and subsequent cover up of its involvement). His whole explanation, though, relies on assuming that Zionists have a stranglehold on all the critical areas that could expose them.

My query is - surely there are enough upright people in the US intelligence/military establishment that would expose such a plot?

Or is this like the USS Liberty attack?

Anonymous said...

A spot of interesting history from The Gates of Vienna ...

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/

Yesterday, as part of our 9-11 commemoration, we reminded our readers that September 11th was also the 328th anniversary of the arrival of King Jan III Sobieski on the Kahlenberg overlooking Vienna.

In contrast to yesterday’s solemn tributes, today we celebrate the victory of the Poles, the Germans, and the Austrians at the Gates of Vienna. On September 12th, 1683, Jan III Sobieski and his troops routed the Turks in the nick of time, lifted the siege of Vienna, and put the Islamic horde to flight back into the Balkans.


Nice.
UN

Anonymous said...

It must be real.

I saw it on TV!

kulak said...

@Franz

the Alex-Jones-version of events.

I agree with you.

AJ is not a friend of the white man.

911 "truthers" have a fundamentally Jewish outlook.

Like U.N. said of them, they love drama.

Anonymous said...

Thruthers are Jews? So who's side are they on then?

Anonymous said...

@U.N.

I said, “Welcome to the Republican Party.”

That sums up Republicans pretty well.

They'd rather hire a stinky, shady bum than a white child.

Saves them money.

kulak said...

@Anon

Thruthers are Jews? So who's side are they on then?

I didn't say they are Jews, though many assuredly are. I said they have a fundamentally Jewish outlook. (Also a female outlook -- women are more likely to see themselves as oppressed by vast, remote, powerful forces.)

Jews are on their own side. Which is normal.

U.N. posted a bit of poison earlier IMO, intentionally or not:

Well, yes. They will find out. We, and many like us, are proof of that. Does it mean anything that we find out? Not a chance.
As someone pointed out, 30% of Americans have no -- and never have had any -- connection to the
internet. Okay, take them out of the equation. Of the remainder, the overwhelming majority use their connection as a handy postbox for email with the occasional wander across the porn sites.

The percentage of people who will actively seek out sites like this and enter (sometimes heated) debate? A minuscule fraction of a percent. We simply don't count.


So, whichever side of the "issue" they take, they do so in a way that tends to both distract whites from their own genocide and mentally emasculate whites.

What do "truthers" and the orthodox agree on?

911 is important. It is important to know who did it, and punish them. You should spend a lot of time thinking about it. Get riled up about. Hysterical, even.

Truthers, neocons, and christian crusaders are all hysterical, in the fullest sense of the word.

But the truth is 911 doesn't matter one jot or tittle.

Straight is the path and narrow is the way.

pdf1 said...

The thing that really struck me about UN's video link was that what's actually shown on TV News is totally contyrolled by a handful of people - the News Directors of the major networks. Once they've done their bit the video 'facts' have been created and will live on. Love to know who the NDs were on that day. I feel I could easily provide a profile.

pdf1 said...

@T O Meehan; How then do you explain the collapse of Building 7?

Henry IX said...

Uncle Nasty - you repeat manyof the killer facts about 9 11. But they're only killer facts to those that know about them. The new 'great expose' - Savant referred to it - The Eleventh Day - in all its 600 pages never mentions any of those damned inconvenient facts, focusing instead on how the various 'bombers' got radicalized.

as you said in an earlier post, what the great unwashed get to hear about is a carefully constructed false narrative.

hoosier said...

The point about this is that you don't need to address everything, name the guilty or their motives. It's enough to point out a number of crucial unexplainables, as savant has done, and, in the event of no satisfactroy explanation being provided, to show that the official explanation is bunk.

kulak said...

Q: What's the difference between the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty and the September 11 attack?

A: The U.S.S. Liberty was full of Americans. New York City is full of... well... you know.

Anonymous said...

True kulak - but amazingly there were VERY FEW of them in the WTC on that day. For some reason....

Anonymous said...

Well, here's one that gobbed my smack ... or the other way round. I never get it right.

http://age-of-treason.blogspot.com/

Not the content, but a video that I never thought would ever be broadcast on American TV.

Former New Jersey Superior Court judge Andrew Napolitano questions former CIA operative and Bin Laden hunter Michael Scheuer on Fox News.

Napolitano: First thing, should we be surprised that the American government, whether it's the intelligence agencies or the FBI, is spying on our allies here in the United States of America or is this something that has been going on for years and we just didn't know about it until recently?

Scheuer: Well if it was a real ally like Canada or Britain or Australia we would be surprised, but it's a pleasant surprise to me to find out that the FBI is spying on the Israelis. The Israelis are certainly an immensely malign influence in the United States. They steal our technology, they suborn government employees to spy for them and transfer documents, and certainly their influence through citizen groups like AIPAC on the Congress is politically corrupting. So I think they're perfectly correct to be spying on the Israelis.

Napolitano: Well what does Benjamin Netanyahu say to president Obama the next time they meet? "Why are your people listening to my phone calls? That was me talking to the ambassador while some agent of yours was listening!"

Scheuer: Well Netanyahu will just tell the president what to do and what not to do. That's what Israeli prime ministers do to US presidents. And what will happen in the congress is the congressmen and women who are owned or at least bribed by AIPAC and other US citizen organizations that support Israel will threaten the FBI with budget cuts or manpower cuts if they don't stop watching the Israelis.

Napolitano: Got it.


Watch it and be stunned.

Uncle Nasty

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

@U.N.

I said, “Welcome to the Republican Party.”

That sums up Republicans pretty well.

They'd rather hire a stinky, shady bum than a white child.

Saves them money.


Okay, Anon., I take your point -- and it is a valid one, but you know what the thrust of the story was.

Cheers,
UN

Anonymous said...

Savant, I find it very disapointing you're drinking the truther cool aid. You're distracting the light from where it needs to shine; Militant Islam.

Anonymous said...

Another question, regarding United Airlines Flight 93, that crashed in Pennsylvania.

Not long after 9-11, a person who wrote for a Conservative, Populist publication made the assertion that Flight 93 was shot down by a North Dakota Air National Guard Pilot flying a F-16 fighter.

This person even Named the pilot, but I'm not sure if thewre was ever any follow up on this assertion.

The narrative regarding Flight 93 is that the plane crashed after the passengers attempted to wrest control from the hijackers.

Is it possible that Flight 93 was actually shot down while the passengers were trying to take over the plane?

Wondering???

One Link: http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2008/04/us-air-force-shot-down-flight-93.html

SAVANT said...

"Savant, I find it very disapointing you're drinking the truther cool aid. You're distracting the light from where it needs to shine; Militant Islam."

If the questions I raise have substance there may be a connection between radical Islam and some of 'our' forces.

blueboy said...

'My query is - surely there are enough upright people in the US intelligence/military establishment that would expose such a plot?

Or is this like the USS Liberty attack?'

Answer: Yes. Just like the Liberty attack whereby all discussion was foreclosed. Brave military men taking on the proclaimed truth were/are in short supply.

puma said...

blueboy said...
'My query is - surely there are enough upright people in the US intelligence/military establishment that would expose such a plot? 

Or is this like the USS Liberty attack?'

Answer: Yes. Just like the Liberty attack whereby all discussion was foreclosed. Brave military men taking on the proclaimed truth were/are in short supply.
-----------------------

Thanks for your reply.

I can understand that after the deliberate USS Liberty attack by Israeli forces that American intelligence/military personnel may have been cowed and confused into silence by the 'official' US coverup of that event.

But as time passed, surely the higher level upright people tasked with connecting the dots would raise the alarm and start fighting and exposing the corruption. Is the system so compartmentalized that a few string pullers can control such things?

Anyway, something is rotten in the state of 911.

Digby said...

"Savant, I find it very disapointing you're drinking the truther cool aid. You're distracting the light from where it needs to shine; Militant Islam."

Even if we accept this point, it doesn't mean that the fight against Islamic colonization of the west cannot be fought simultaneously.

puma said...

Anonymous said...
Savant, I find it very disapointing you're drinking the truther cool aid. You're distracting the light from where it needs to shine; Militant Islam.
14 September 2011 00:49
---------------------

Saying that Savant is 'drinking the truther cool aid' because he is questioning the official view on 911 looks like you have also been drinking some kind of cool aid yourself.

Militant Islam is a major problem, granted, but we need to find out who and what caused them to be a problem in the first place. Let's get to first causes.

kulak said...

OT

Q: Where will the rabbis make their last stand?
A: Mount Erratum

(Level 2: There's always another fucking erratum.)

kudzo bob said...

puma - the software systems that controlled US airspace and many other areas, was produced by Israeli companies, many with connections to Mossad. Assuming that they included various trapdoors to gain access to these systems it woud require very few accomplices among the US military and intelligence services.

As to why they don't speak out, it's the same reason nobody else will - they'll step on the Third Rail. End of career, maybe end of life. Also don't forget that the military is full of careerists - note how the top generals/admirals bemoan the lack of diversity in their forces!

Anonymous said...

Huff post lionessises US pilot

On Sept. 11, 2001, Penney and her commanding officer were ordered to stop United Airlines Flight 93 from hitting a target in the nation's capital. But they didn't have any missiles or even ammunition. So Col. Marc Sasseville decided they would use their own planes to bring it down.

He planned to strike the plane's cockpit. She opted to go for its tail, Penney said.

Shaunantijihad said...

Whilst David Duke is hardly mainstream, and he either accepts Muslim donations or is naive about Islam, it is nonetheless surprising to see this 911 "truther" article on his site:

http://www.davidduke.com/general/polls-show-84-percent-of-americans-doubtful-of-government-account-of-911_24404.html#more-24404

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