Monday, 14 September 2009

Talking to Muslims in Stockholm

I've been in Stockholm ten days now, and in that time I've made it my business to talk with as many Muslims as I can. I've struck up conversations with Iranians, Eritreans, Iraqis, Egyptians and Azerbaijanis – no Somalis! The result has been broadly similar.

They are emphatic that they have no wish to impose their beliefs on Swedish society at large. They seem sincere, and I believe they are up to a point. However, the trouble comes when I pose the difficult questions.

Such as:

What should happen to a Muslim in Sweden if he should become a Christian? Does his family have the right to kill him, or to punish him at all?

Should there be legalised punishment for women who commit adultery?

The previous unequivocal commitments to democracy and the rule of law quickly become enveloped in a fog of ambivalence and discomfort. They try to shift the ground by saying ‘these things should be handled by the Muslim community itself’, or that such punishments should be applied only if there were a Muslim majority (which there will be within a generation or two).

Their attitudes to native Swedes are heavily negative. After talking for a while they admit to detesting their ‘arrogance’ most of all. I find it hard to see where this arrogance comes in. I don't see it in Swedes. But then I'm not an immigrant from an incompatible culture. They tell me that they ‘just know’ that Swedes look down on them, and most of them seem eaten up with anger.

They also tell me that, like Paris, Stockholm is ‘surrounded ’ by vast housing estates where the inhabitants have been ‘abandoned ’. Once the numbers become big enough they’ll ‘invade the city’ with horrendous results.

The same scenario was painted to me in different ways by several interlocutors. Most of these are not in themselves bad people. They are products of generations of benighted indoctrination, from dysfunctional societies where you have to fight and cheat to survive, and they find themselves in one of the world’s most ‘progressive’ societies trying to make their way.

The ones I really blame are the country’s smug, preening, sanctimonious leaders who, to bolster their own sense of self-worth, have created this situation. It truly is a nightmare scenario my friends, especially when you consider the demographics (30% of children under the age of ten are third world immigrant stock).

A nightmare scenario indeed.

42 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yea, a nutty king would be a big improvement on the soulless scum running the show now. I'd like the military to get a backbone and do the right thing. I,m going to pray for it tonight.

Skot German said...

Excellent post, as usual, Savant.

"dysfunctional societies where you have to fight and cheat to survive"

Well, I think they are functional societies. It is just that fighting and cheating are part of their normal functioning.

Anonymous said...

Very informative. Thanks for putting the real picture out there for all to see. Damned f ' ing shame, however, that this type of info won't be utilized by the powers-that-be to avert impending disaster.

eh said...

...‘these things should be handled by the Muslim community itself’...

All that's well and good, and one can and should point out this kind of thing, as well as damning facts (e.g. that in the UK "One in three Muslim homes have dependent children but no working adults."), but honestly I just don't like seeing them (in such large numbers anyway). It's visceral. And knowing facts like the one I cite (it must be similar in Sweden), as well as data about disproportionate criminality, which make it clear it is all senseless, that it's all driven by racially sensitive political correctness, just makes it all that much more repugnant.

Anonymous said...

As a Swede I can identify all too easily with what you say. The one term you did not use was IN DENIAL. That sums up my countrymen best.

Erik said...

Yes, your assessment is all too accurate, I fear.

kulak said...

these things should be handled by the Muslim community itself

Ah those wacky semites..

Jewish girl prank calls her parents

Anonymous said...

Not related to this post, but everyone should see this video. Black student beating the tar out of a white student completely unprovoked, surrounded by jigaboos getting worked into a frenzy. The bus looked to be greater than 50% black. There is no way I'd let my white kid ride such a bus. Also note how the white police spokesman at first said it was racially motivated (which it obviously is) then changed his story later, after no doubt getting taken to the woodshed by the PC patrol.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisnews/story/60D37B6EC5FF4711862576320011605B?OpenDocument

Sven33 said...

kulak, very interesting video indeed. Yes, such unbridled hypocricy. According to Jews the rest of us are supposed to be broad-minded and marry outside our ethnic group. Boy, does it not apply to them though!

What hypocricy!

Anonymous said...

Of course it's not a racist attack - it's blacks attacking whites. Hence, no racism!

clonycavan said...

Thank you Savant. You seem to have a way of getting immigrants in Sweden to open up, revealingly. Is it difficult?
Those figures about the under ten children are shocking. We will soon see the last generation of Swedes to rule Sweden.
Ireland's under tens are probably not far behind. Certainly Ireland's Government (may they soon be sacked) has wilfully modelled itself upon the Scandinavian example.

IsraeliEejit said...

Savant, your posts should be seen world-wide. This is a real eye-opener for those of us who aren't seeing it first-hand.

As I've already said, it's about time you all start making a lot of noise because your grand-children will secretly analyze your lack of action with great despair. Their history books (probably in Arabic by that time) will detail "The Return of the Great Caliphate".

openyoeyes said...

Initial raiding parties are always nice to an overwhelmingly stronger majority. Wait till their numbers go up. Then out come the long knives and society is changed to reflect the behavior of the new majority and its culture.

If history is any guide, societies must be wary of foreigners bearing "goodwill" and an opportunity to "co-exist". These are a ruse to eventually assert their own biological imperative which is to further their own genetic ilk.

Human beings are not born "tabula rasa" or a blank slate. They have behavioral encoding at birth that may be consciously suppressed if necessary, but will come bursting forth if not constrained and will ALWAYS be the default reaction if un-censored. And the more of a particular type group up, the more dramatic you'll see the transformation from "good guy" to "mob appendage".

So in short, I wouldn't trust these desert carpet hawkers, as far as I could throw their dirty, fat,smelly, hairy mother in-laws.

SAVANT said...

Thanks folks for the support. A few comments.

"Is it possible to get them to discuss these issues?'. It depends but it always takes time. A degree of dissimulation is required in that I present myself as just innocently asking questions and being, or appearing to be, non-judgemental.

openyoeyes: Totally agree, and this is especially so with Muslims, as we've seen.

clonycavan - yes, the demographics are horrific. I'd say they must be close to irreversible at this stage, given the number of local girls interbreeding with these people.

Israelieedjit and others: Thanks and it's good to see that you think my contribution worthwhile. Please make every effort to publicise this site using whatever means. as you know Google has put the site right down at the bottom of its search results.

Viking said...

You made a good point in a previous post Savant, about Swedish girls having emasculated their men with feminism, and now they don't even want to breed with them anymore!
I found the same attitudes amongst Norwegian immigrants. They are mostly quite moderate but largely that is because they're a minority. When they reach critical mass, there's nothing stopping the moderates from switching to more extreme view, as they slowly realised those views will be acceptable. If they become a majority, it will all change

Viking said...

You made a good point in a previous post Savant, about Swedish girls having emasculated their men with feminism, and now they don't even want to breed with them anymore!
I found the same attitudes amongst Norwegian immigrants. They are mostly quite moderate but largely that is because they're a minority. When they reach critical mass, there's nothing stopping the moderates from switching to more extreme view, as they slowly realised those views will be acceptable. If they become a majority, it will all change.

Zngr said...

Blood will flow the streets... Anyway, the frustration one feels towards this chain of events is immense, not least because when the floor speaks like Savant now (and many others) the opponents or those who wish not to believe what is being revealed to them are animated to great hysterics, amidst shrill screams of "nazi" and "racist".

It feels the cries become more shrill as the dissent towards the failed immigration project amongst regular Europeans grows.

The most frustrating part? Most sane people DON'T EVEN BLAME THE IMMIGRANTS, as well as they shouldn't. Yet anyone speaking against mass immigration is still called a "racist" or worse. Yes, the immigrants are a part of what is happening, so you cannot discuss what immigration brings without discussing the immigrants as well. But if you possess a modicum of depth of emotion, you can probably at least attempt an objective evaluation of these events and quickly, by gazing at the whole EU, deduct the immigrants are also products of the societies they escape from, that is authoritarian, theocratic, violent, under developed and poor. At the same time it is true they will face great difficulty in performing in the high-tech information and service societies of Western Europe. But how can you blame West for that? We did not produce these people.

Of course first and foremost our problems are the fault of our own politicians and EU elite in their ivory towers succumbed to the idea that these masses of immigrants should retain their "own culture", while their immigration has not been limited in any effective manner and the problems have simply been brushed under the rug again and again. With the lockstep march of our horrid MSM media preaching the ideology all along.

Last I discussed with a "non-judgmental" and "tolerant" person, I asked what's the problem with attacking the EU elite and our spineless politicians regarding multiculturalism and immigration issues? Why, because the criticism is supposedly a mere cover for racism, fear, hate and a prelude to nazi concentration camps! That is, not real criticism or worry, but simply masked hatred of everyone of different color. Therefore it is not to be taken at face value or even contemplated at all. Any critic must exclude immigrants from the equation! But how can you, when talking immigration?

That mode of thought is unfortunately still prevalent with academics, students and the liberal left. And they claim _they_ are the tolerant ones with wide horizons?

kerdasi amaq said...

"societies must be wary of foreigners bearing "goodwill" and an opportunity to "co-exist"."

It isn't the foreigner, it is the traitors(multi-culti liberal shitheads)on the inside, who open the gates who are to be feared. Then punished.

cantwell2 said...

zngr - trust me on this. Nobody, but nobody, is more close-minded than a tenured academic. Not just in Sweden. Everywhere. And as you say, they THINK they're the tolerant ones.

kulak said...

Anon: Yes, great video. Don't blame the animals though, blame the white kid's parents.

Sven: Hypocrisy? Well yes, but wouldn't you like to see the Robot Chicken version? Hilarious stuff.

Viking said: "When they reach critical mass..."

That's when the fun begins!

Savant: I'm not so sure about reversibility. People often interpret that phrasing as "inevitable doom." The flow of a zero Reynolds number fluid is not reversible, but it doesn't have to be in order to row your boat back home. In fact, if it was reversible (high Reynolds number), rowing wouldn't work very well at all.

The fact that it's not reversible just means you can't take the same path to get back home. But it doesn't mean there isn't a path back home.

We can't rewind the tape, but the doom talk seems to me to amount to little more than nostalgic melancholy.

I am absolutely certain that the future is going to be better in at least some ways.

For one thing, political correctness is going to die too. :)

And always remember that darkies just can't run a proper police state. The security cameras will all fail from lack of maintenance.

Critical mass? The best part is going to be when traitor whites are kicked out of their own damn leftist parties. Even more hilariously, they'll actually be surprised! :))

Really, I cannot wait.

kulak said...

Sorry for the brain fart: It's the infinite Reynolds number fluids that flow irreversibly!

SAVANT said...

Jeez kulak, how do you expect me to remember fluid dynamics formulae?

I Hope you're right and I agree the darkies can't run apolice state. However, they can make it like Somalia or Detroit. ie.e the rest of us are there, in our gated communtiies or whatever, while the violent masses of layabouts swarm around outside.

because, while the west MIGHT react, as Ryenolds will tell you, you cant get the toothpaste back in the tube. These people are here now, their millions of children are - unfortunately - as entitled to citizenship as yours and mine are.

Therein lies the problem in my book.

Euro Referendum 2009 said...

If all the post-war immigrants to the Weest were white then we would have something near 100% intermarriage, a bit like whites in the USA. A very substantial number of white Brits/French etc have simply moved away from ethnic minorities.

Savant, please have a look at my blog. It is just an idea but I think it has great potential. I am hoping to get Gates of Vienna or The Brussels Journal to take it up.

I usually use Jockney or Richard when I comment on your site.

Olaf - Oslo said...

Don't be too pessimistic. In Norway the anti-immigration party (proposed sending all immigrants arriving without passports to internment camps in africa!!!) did really well even tho all the mainstream parties said they would not enter colation with her.

The ordinary people speak!

Skot German said...

Savant, here is a link to a good essay called "Surrender, Genocide, or What" discussing possible future resolutions to the Muslim problem.

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2008/04/surrender-genocide-or-what.html

teacher.paris said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v73P2ntLWP0&NR=1
Saga - "Krigarens själ" (The Warrior's Soul)
Once upon a time there were Swedes with guts.

IsraeliEejit said...

The British Nationalist Party has also gained a lot more support, with a member even getting into the European Parliament.
This despite been branded as a fascist Nazi party by the Lefties.

Savant, will try to promote this site whenever possible.
BTW, I accidentally stumbled across it when you left the link with a comment you posted on a British newspaper site (Times, Guardian?)

Anonymous said...

One of the reasns for so much inerracial dating is that this is portrayed in the MSM, especially TV, as the natural thing to do. You'll never see any of the numerous downsides mentioned.

Zngr said...

@ Olof (and anyone interested in Norway) I'm not so sure if I shouldn't be pessimistic...

See, last spring it seemed almost certain the Norwegian government won't be re-elected and that the immigration critical Progress Party will come out with even more votes. Alas, Labour Party won again.

This is where I get so inflamed it's HARD NOT TO TYPE WITH ALL CAPITALS.

By some peculiar chance of timing, surely accidental, Norwegian Statistics (SBB) published their new immigration report a DAY AFTER THE ELECTION.

Not a week, not two, not two months before, but as soon as the pro-immigration Labour Party had secured their victory.

What did the immigration report say? Look for yourself: http://hodja.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/norge.jpg?w=362&h=391

That's right, the number of immigrants has almost doubled to half a million (this in a country of less than 5 million! Imagine the strain on infrastructure!) since 2000 and the majority of them are African or Asian (in the case of Norway, almost completely Muslim, as the Latin immigration is actually nil).

Now Norwegian Labour has four more years disrupt the society and inflict as much damage as possible. They probably know they will lose the next elections, so they must act quickly, and probably the only way for them to stay competitive is the same stratagem the Swedish Social Democrats employ: more, faster, mass immigration.

Why? Use basic math. Most if not 100% of the immigrants who vote, vote Labour in Norway and SD in Sweden. In countries like Norway or Sweden even 100 000 or 200 000 votes is a lot. But almost 20% of the population in Sweden have immigrated to the country, and with the exception of some of the Finns and former USSR citizens vote SD. That means SD automatically has at least one fifth of the voters behind them and also explains how they managed to stay in power to begin with.

The numbers are, now that the report is out, almost similar in Norway and I can assure you, the multiculturalist wing of Labour will do their utmost to grow the immigrant population as fast as possible, as it is a permanent pool of voters for their cause.

I have never in my life been so disappointed or angry about elections taking place in another country than the one I live in, or how they were manipulated.

Sometimes I wish I was completely ignorant to what is happening in Scandinavia and Finland, never mind continental Europe. I would be a happier man.

Anonymous said...

Brilliant reportage, Savant - I salute you!

Potgieter

Anonymous said...

I agree totally with zngr. I'm Swedish but spend a lot of time in Norway. I would say that it is every bit as bad a Sweden. And yes, he is correct, now that Labor are the government again they'll rush in as many trainee supporters as possible.

Anonymous said...

"These people are here now, their millions of children are - unfortunately - as entitled to citizenship as yours and mine are."
Citizenship is a bit of paper. I just wrote another bit - Foreigners can't be citizens.

Anonymous said...

Its more important for these people to remain in government even if it means destroying their country? Scum.
Far worse than Quisling ever was.

Ivo said...

I dont think its quite so bad. We'll just have to learn to live together. I know that will anger many readers, but what option have we now?

kulak said...

Savant said: ...as entitled to citizenship as yours and mine are.

Therein lies the problem in my book.


Dixie shall rise again.

A bit of poetic justice for the yankees. ;)

Euro Referendum 2009 said...

Ivo,

they will not let us live together:they want power.

kerdasi amaq said...

"learn to live together"

Ivo, do you think that your blow-ins will give you that choice?

proud redneck said...

Ivo, you're a fucking fool. These people will lie quiescent till their numbers reach critical mass. Then you'll see how much they want us all to live happily together.

Anonymous said...

"They tell me that they ‘just know’ that Swedes look down on them, and most of them seem eaten up with anger."

These non-white types have a continuous chip on their shoulders. They know deep down that they are inferior, but will never admit it.
If these pakies don't like Sweden why don't they piss off back to their Islamic paradises, then? These buggers are such hypocrites! They hate the "decadent, immoral" West and yet they swarm there like cockroaches.

Abu Abdullah said...

To add to your observations of the Islamic colony of Stockholmstan, here are the latest observations of the Islamic colony of Birminghamstan.

Giuseppe Verdi said...

Ivo,

What other options do the Scandinavian countries have besides quiescence?

I'd like to remind you of a place formerly known as French Algeria. French Algeria had a very sizable population of Frenchmen at one time. How many Frenchmen do you think are in Algeria right now? Nothing is of necessity permanent in this world.

Munin said...

The Savant wrote: "After talking for a while they admit to detesting their ‘arrogance’ most of all. I find it hard to see where this arrogance comes in. I don't see it in Swedes. But then I'm not an immigrant from an incompatible culture. They tell me that they ‘just know’ that Swedes look down on them, and most of them seem eaten up with anger."

For "arrogance" read absence of submission.

Muslims are annoyed, irritated and angry if non-muslims do not submit to them.

If you subscribe to a religion/culture (islam) which emphasizes that you (the muslims) are the top-dog - the envy of all other people - your world is out of kilter, when you sense that the people around do not acknowledge your superior status.

Consider these pictures.

http://sydsvenskan-img.se/archive/00277/HEAstaddag1_277316a.jpg

http://sydsvenskan-img.se/archive/00277/HEAstaddag3_277315a.jpg

The woman (Amal Mohamad) looks like a bizarre relic from the 1900th century to most Swedes...

-----

The caption reads: Amal Mohamad, Widad Dakil and Benin Ali participated in some autumnal outdoor work - removing fallen leaves, litter aso - together with other tenants of Herrgården in exchange for tickets to the circus.

Herrgården is a notorious crime-ridden housing complex for immigrants in Rosengård (a part of Malmö - the third largest city in Sweden).

97% of those living in Herrgården are on welfare.

Whether it is true or not, that Amal Mohamad (or those children) did take part in some autumnal gathering of leaves/rubbish (organized by the landlord) is impossible to know. More often than not Swedish jounalists will bend and tweak (even fabricate) their reports (and arrange photographs) in order to show off immigrants in a positive light. A photograph of an immigrant who (like Swedes) participate in some autumnal gathering of leaves is designed to tug at the average Swede's heartstring.

According to the article the whole thing lasted for only two hours and mostly attracted children - the adults are tired from observing Ramadan (and probably busy cooking the enormous meal for the evening, my comment). The prime objective of the exercise was (acc. to the article) to entice the tenants to meet each other and encourage them to do something together.

Article (in Swedish)

http://sydsvenskan.se/malmo/article549803/Rosengardsbor-snyggade-till-Herrgarden.html