Wednesday, 8 July 2009

The patriot game

An interesting comment to my post on how Reagan's puppeteers (and Ollie North's) contributed to America's decline. This comes from an American who was at the cutting edge, so to speak. Here's what he says:

"Too bad I didn't see this blog while all this was going on. As a defense contractor employee during our lords reign, I could see what a waste it was. I also knew he was little more than a pitchman for the ruling elite. I especially like the title they gave him as "patriot".

However, would a patriot allow meat packing companies to send busses down to Mexico to get scabs - Ronnie did. (http://www.citypaper.com/special/story.asp?id=6045ES) More difficult for me personally than seeing the slaughter of cattle and the incredible carnage in those factories was seeing these workers, how they live. Meat packing, until the late '70s, was one of the highest paying industrial jobs in the United States.

Then the Reagan and Bush administrations allowed the industry to bust unions, to hire strikebreakers, to hire illegal immigrants for these jobs, even to transport them here from Mexico in company buses. Now meat packing is one of the lowest paying industrial jobs, as well as the most dangerous.

This is a great blog I will check in periodically.

It makes me sad to see decent, honourable hard-working Americans brought low by these so-called patriots.

48 comments:

Anonymous said...

I have no personal knowledge of the breakup of meat packing unions during Reagan. Half of my family lives in Nebraska, and I can tell you for a fact that the Mexicans came in by the busload to the meatpacking plants during Clinton, not Reagan.

Its also contrary to Reagan's history. He took endless shite from AEI and the neo-kohns of his day for imposing quotas on Steel, Semiconductors, Machine Tools and autos to support American industry and jobs.

Reagan was no saint, but please. He was certainly not the 80s version of Dubya.

If this is an exercise in assigning blame for the decline and fall of the US, you need to start with FDR or even the creation of the FED. Sure, American entropy and the destruction of Europe solidified America's pre-eminence long after FDR croaked, but he laid the seeds.

The worm had already turned by the time Reagan took office.

Anonymous said...

It is no surprise, because the order of todays western governments and especially the USA is to appeal to the interests of their big business lobbyists. So they will use their two tier party dictatorship to to reel in what is most profitable to them and not the governed citizens (who really have no voice, power or resources to resist such tyranny). This being done by using the "right wing" to destroy wages and the "left-wing" to import cheap labor. This amounts to total treason while irresponsibly destroying the whole moral, ethical and social fabric of the USA. The process will continue until the state looses further powers or is de-centralised and grants secession to individual states. An opportunity like this of course will not be granted so the other option is to wait until the mismanagement of US eventually collapses in on itself and take your chances then.

SAVANT said...

These are two very interesting comments. ANon 3.17 - I had never looked at it this way, i.e. that the 'left' pushes for masss immigration while the 'right' does the union-busting.

The two really go nicely in hand, dont they? While professing to seek two completely different objectives.

Yes, we're all being just jerked around.

Anon. 5.04, yes, I suppose you could go back to FDR and the Fed, but this kind of approach can go on for ever. In the context of Reagan I stand by my main thesis, that he was a major accelerator of the problems America now faces.

Anonymous said...

This sort of racket has a sinister emulation in the rural town of Gort (small town in the west of Ireland for the ex-pats here). Again a meat-packing factory that flew in whole communities of Brazilians(!?) to work there without any local consultation just to save a few cents. The required organization of such a feat calls into question the blind arrogance of the orchestrators. Especially now in a recession economy. At least we can see where they got their inspiration from.

On a note to Savant: Yes, any marginal political group that happens to make it into the mainstream will be co-opted on their most capitalist friendly objectives. For instance the "Greens" for their taxes on anything remotely auto related to the carbon footprint of bovine flatulence. On the other hand anything remotely sensitive to local traditions or public well being is ignored.

On the false "left-right" dichotomy , I'll say this; both Communism and Capitalism while appearing vastly at odds ideologically will in fact reach the same goal. That being the total de-humanisation of the "people" while reaching an absolute aggregation of state forces to the benefit of a small corrupt class of "elites".

Joe O'Neill said...

Never forget that " The best paid job" usually means the highest prices, the old story is so so true , one mans pay rise is another mans price rise......

Rohan Swee said...

This amounts to total treason while irresponsibly destroying the whole moral, ethical and social fabric of the USA.

Yep, so it's a waste of time to sit around arguing "it's the repugs!", "no, it's the dimmocrats!" I just wonder how hungry Joe Average American is going to have to get before it finally penetrates his thick skull that both parties are relentlessly pursuing the noble goal of providing him and his with that coveted Third World lifestyle.

The process will continue until the state looses further powers...

OT, but if you'll indulge a pedantic old fart: it's "lose", not "loose" - assuming you mean the state will have less and less power (it will lose powers), not that it will be unleashing powers or setting them free (it will loose powers). Yeah, I know I have a stick up my butt, but this particular widespread misusage really grates. Does anybody under 50 know the difference between "lose" and "loose"? This seems to be slipping past even editors of "prestige" publications, such that "loose" is now (mis)used more often than not. Damn whippersnappers.

kulak said...

There's a lot wrong with your Reagan piece, Savant, some of it factual, and I'm not sure you actually mean all of it.

I agree Reagan did some things bad for America, like the amnesty of mexican illegals.

But presidents are mostly symptoms, not causes. Reagan is well-remembered, by most of those who remember him well (as I still do, despite his flaws) for two reasons, both of them having to do with mass psychology and race.

First, he was elected near the bottom of a bear market. This pretty much guarantees good feeling.

Second, he was the last implicitly and unashamedly white president.

He wasn't ashamed to be white. Carter was.

Carter's book Peace not Apartheid is pretty good, but you have to remember this is the same guy who invited Jim Jones, of mass murder/suicide fame, to his inauguration. Screw Carter.

And no Democratic presidential candidate has won a majority of the white vote since LBJ.

America was doomed from day one, with its large black population. Everything that has followed has been a result of the struggle to reconcile the irreconcilable: The morality (as in concern for moral thinking per se) of the white race and the presence of large numbers of blacks.

SAVANT said...

kulak - Reagan did all of those things, but the thing I fault him for most of all is in his denying that America was living beyond its means, thereby starting the whole disastrous descent into the penury that now faces the next generation.

He compounded the problem by doubly hiting the working class average American, first by mass immigration (driving down wages) and secind by encouraging the export of American jobs abroad (i.e.globalisation).

That's enough for me.

SAVANT said...

anon 11.06. I'm very interested in the Gort story. Are you from there? I've been trying to find out what actually happened and how it worked, is working, out. Needless to say I place no store on what the MSM says.

I do know that Brazilians are far from being the worst immigrants, so this is of particular interest.

Anonymous said...

Cheers Rohan Swee!! At last somebody is taken to task for the misuse of 'loose'. Where the fuck did this come from? And yes, as you say, I've seen it in seemingly quality publications.

You're not apedant, you've got class!

Anonymous said...

Reagan is remembered fondly by many Americans because he returned the countries' swagger after the emasculating Carter administration. Reagan inherited a 23.5% prime lending rate, almost 11% unemployment and 11% inflation. His policies were improving the economy greatly by the end of his 1st term and by the second it was positively booming.

It is odd that his economic approach was pure Keynesian economics. He lowered taxes and exploded government spending to get the U.S. out of a severe recession. And it worked fine - for a while. The problem is once you get people addicted to government money they keep coming back for more and more like a crack whore.

Now Obama has inherited a similar situation and thinks he too can just spend his way out of it. Problem for him is the U.S. has finally reached the end of its rope. No more credit, value of a dollar dropping fast. The only real card the U.S. has to play against Europe and the rest of the world is a huge military with tons of advanced weapons and battle hardened troops. In fact, without its military might, the world probably would have cut the U.S. off already.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:04 has hit the nail on the head. There is no distinction between left and right in the US, both are parties of big government seeking to expand state power. Lew Rockwell has written an excellent book about this concept - The Left, The Right, and The State. Highly recommended.

http://www.mises.org/store/Left-The-Right-and-The-State-The-P550.aspx?AFID=14

As a matter of fact lewrockwell.com is probably the best source of information and commentary on the web today. Check it out if you haven't already. It will open your eyes.

Anonymous said...

No I'm not from Gort, but passing through about a year ago, the change was undeniable, with brown gangs lining the streets. A former work acquaintance does actually live there and he was unapologetic about the situation (although he is very apathetic otherwise). It's driving investment away.

Basically loitering clumps of menacing Brazilian folk hanging about the small town centre while the brown youth would harass and intimidate the locals. Picking fights and such while under the influence. I've passed through there under the circumstances and it was looking like a mini São Paulo. No longer a friendly place.

Anonymous said...

May I also recommned Lew Rockwell. One of the few guys to tell it as it is. Unfortunately he's been largely marginalized by the MSM.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 10 July 2009 00:13

"Cheers Rohan Swee!! At last somebody is taken to task for the misuse of 'loose'. Where the fuck did this come from? And yes, as you say, I've seen it in seemingly quality publications.

You're not apedant, you've got class!"

It's "pedantic" but yes, the misuse of the word "loose" was my fault. Rohan I agree with your stance wholeheartedly on this. In my defense it was over-looked due to the fact that this comment spell check doesn't appear to pick up on grammar. Still though.

The deterioration of the English language is not helped by the new generation of internet chat and phone text "msgs". Popular negro slang has debased its very respectability and PCism is transforming its very structure. Then again, to Ireland's humiliation our own ancient Gaelic language has been all but uprooted and destroyed.

Rohan Swee said...

Anonymous @00:13: Thanks. Glad I'm not the only one irritated by the "loosers".

Anonymous @01:43, re "swagger". That's just the problem. Swagger is not substance. I've come to think that the increasing admiration for "swagger" in American cultural history, replacing the earlier "strong, silent", inherently chivalrous ideal, is also a sign of its creeping Thirdworldization. (Not that Reagan himself manifested that idiot boastfulness so perfected by Dubya.) It's what clueless loser thugs and Banana Republic despots do best.

Re Gort - very interesting. Man, these people just will not quit, will they? They're still going full steam ahead here in the U.S. (damn the gathering depression), hauling in discount lots of Third Worlders at every opportunity and dumping them on hapless small towns.

Always accompanied (in fact, it's quickly becoming an honored journalistic tradition) by cretinous, fluffy-bunny, devoid-of-real-reporting, "how fortunate we are to be diversified by these vibrant newcomers!" pieces in the local papers. (They're always "vibrant". No exceptions.) Oh, and also in the regional big-city paper, which will send a reporter to write back the same - until trouble starts and unsuppressable information leaks out. Then the big-city paper will replace the fluffy-bunnies with an endless series of sob-stories strictly from the point of view of the scabs, er, hard-working immigrants, along with their cheap-labor-hog sponsors and their do-gooder colluders (generally Lutheran or Catholic "refugee services").

Anonymous said...

Basically loitering clumps of menacing Brazilian folk hanging about the small town centre while the brown youth would harass and intimidate the locals. Picking fights and such while under the influence. I've passed through there under the circumstances and it was looking like a mini São Paulo. No longer a friendly place.

Is the Irish Government aware of this? They'd want to be. And what should they do? Common Sense would dictate sending in the ERU and /or Army rounding every single one of these fuckers up and deporting them and making those who have the cash to pay their way home do just that.
The police / army /Govt are still overwhelmingly Irish and yet they sit on their hands while Irish people in an Irish town have to endure being harressed by third worlders. Small town America is being bombarded by Somalis and the like but the US government is no longer Founding Stock American. Blacks Jews and Mestizos call the tune over there so I guess Virginians and Carolinians are well used to expecting no help. We still have the power to save our country but its more important to Cowen to do what the monsterous EU tell him.
And for what! Unemployment will still hit 18 per cent before too long regardless of what the EU pricks do and we've got a situation where towns like Gort Roscommon Longford & Ballyhaunis are turning into third world colonies. We could get our fishing industry back if we told those cunts and their European Court of Human Bullshit to fuck off. Pardon my french but I'm from the west of Ireland and I am sick of this fucking bullshit.

Anonymous said...

Anon. 5:04 says

"This amounts to total treason while irresponsibly destroying the whole moral, ethical and social fabric of the USA."

One hears this a lot-- blaming policy makers and various leaders for our lot. There is truth in this idea, but what about the irresponsibility of the dopes who mindlessly elect the same ciphers over and over, whose expectations remain very low, or who do not bother voting at all? I agree re: states power, but would not rule out an osmotic shift of power from the State to the states.

Perhaps the worst the political lackeys have done is destroy our ability, our previous second nature, to pointedly and persistently question the actions of those whom we have entrusted to do good on our behalf. The msm sure as hell won't do it for us. How many citizens write to their reps?

Reagan had one bunch attacking his every move with vigor, while many of the remainder were inspired by his leadership because it was clear he believed in a vision that resonated with many. Was he simply a better bullshitter than Clinton, or Bush, or Obama? The difference is that he believed what he espoused and I don't think that was an act.

We should be willing to be more obliging in looking at his record simply because he was not a deceitful coward, as much as the others heretofore named. Any analysis of his economic policies should be seen in this light.

leadpb

Anonymous said...

I take issue with the notion that Carter was responsible for the inflation and high interest rates of the time. Carter had alot of problems and was a big negative but to blame him for inflation caused by the "Guns and Butter" policies of the Vietnam war is typical of what most Americans believe.

In fact, it was Carter who actually did something about it and it cost him dearly. His appointment of Paul Volker in 1979 and Volker's driving the country into a severe recession was the main reason the inflation ended. Volker simply let interest rates go to where the market was taking them and it choked off the economy. Previous FED chairmen thought the inflation would burn out on its own and tried to hold interest rates below the market.

Volker changed direction in 1983 and loosened the money supply, that coupled with Reagan's defense spending gave us a boom that also gave us the S&L bust.

In total, Carter was more of a conservative than Reagan was. He just had alot of enemies and he wasn't a likable guy.

Anonymous said...

anon 20.17 has it right. leadbp, you could be right too, but I thing Reagan must have known, or partially realized, that he was selling a crock of shit.

Anonymous said...

How in God's name have the irish left in so many Thirdworlders to one small town. Since reading this post I've been reading up about Gort on the web. It seems almost 40% of the population are Brazilian. Again, in God's name I ask WHY?????

Anonymous said...

One of the things about massimmigration to a town like Gort is that local gombeen men business will welcome the additional spenders. Their money will make up for a lot in their eyes, even if it ultimately ruins the town.

Anonymous said...

From wikipedia:

"Some 40% of the residents of Gort are non-Irish, according to the 2006 Census, which showed that 83% of these were Brazilians. They originally came to work in the meat processing plants in Gort where the pay is generally much higher than in similar plants in Brazil. According to Claire Healy "a large community of Brazilians now live, work and attend school in Gort, gradually altering the appearance and the character of the town". [3] The Roman Catholic church caters to the Brazilian community with a mass in Portuguese every Sunday held in Gort Catholic Church."

One problem, the Brazilians were purposefully flown in to Gort with all expenses paid by that ignorant shortsighted bollocks of the meat processing plant. Rural third world folk don't just pack up their shit 3000 miles away because a local shop in rural Gort advertised some jobs. All for a minimum wage which of course will be higher than anywhere in Brazil. And every June, Gort serves as host to a traditional Brazilian festival called the Quadrilha. Don't be fooled, that festival is not even organised by the Brazilians who lack all initiate outside of being a complete nuisance. And they've taken over the local GAA team too. All for what? Some fat gombeen twat saving a few cents while doing irreparable damage to his native town-folk and country.

This globalization business is out of hand, surely there should be laws set in place to prevent this.

Anonymous said...

From America,

What a great post Savant. Thats exactly what has went on.

Everything can be outsourced/ and mucho cheapo third world labor can be insourced. The social costs of this aren't seen immediately, but when it comes due its overwehlmingly expensive. Successive generations of third worlders will not aquiesce to being "wage-slaves", and would no-doubt unionize and be more vigilant than native-stock Americans or Europeans ever would.

Corporations all have to do it if the government lets one of them get away with it, and that is profoundly wrong. Both parties in America screw the living daylights out of good, decent, average, really patriotic American people........while the politicians and the corporate ilk live in gated-communities with private security in little fairytale hidden-police state townships. Its disgusting, but thats the way it increasingly is.



In a way this is no different than the middle ages Savant. A few elites (nobles) worried about the rising merchantile class that was innovative, wanting to keep them down at serf levels of income and rights, scheming constantly on ways to charge ground rent, interest, and fees to thwart the higher achieving of the populace so that the lions-share of the civilizations wealth can be hoarded into perpetuity for themselves. Using third world labor be it outsoured manufacture or insourced labor while spreading the social/financial extra costs associated with it is all part of the gameplan for them now, and to hell with the consequences 100 years down the line.

SAVANT said...

anon 9.03. Thanks for this. And your point about the Midde Ages is apt. There are indeed so many similarities. As you say, those in secure gated communities, or in the leafy suburbs, dont have to worry about the social impact of vast numbers of incompatible immigrants.

SAVANT said...

anon 4.26. Yes, it's all down to some miserable bollocks trying to save a few bob. Destroying the community makes no difference to him. However, the real blame lies with our (mis)government. They should never have allowed it to happen.

kerdasi amaq said...

"America was doomed from day one, with its large black population."

The pogroms(allegedly instigated by agents of international financiers) in Russia in the 1880's doomed America. They sent large numbers of ostjuden fleeing to America. Everything that is happening in America today is an outworking of that.

Joe O'Neill said...

The point about the third world and gated communities struck a chord with me then BINGO I suddenly realised one of the problems:It is (WAS) assumed by many including myself that it is good to be patriotic and to fight for what we believe is decent wage :But the reality is, that those of us who have made good in this world even those people like myself who started out in poor working class slums really have very little in common with the rabble ( the great unwashed hordes whom one sees covered in Tattoos and spending the inter-holiday periods getting ready for the next piss-up).I for instance who began life living for the first fifteen years in an asbestos prefab have not a single thing in common with a single other person who started life the same way that I know .I do however have a lot in common with people in lots of distant places ( who mainly live in gated communities) who feel common threats to our way of life.That is why I support things like Regan/Thatcher policies,Israel,Capitalism,destruction of Islam,free enterprise,abolition of social support to the rabble who out vote me but rely on my financial tax contribution to support their socialist agenda.I do not for instance see why the user should not pay, it sounds simple but why should the old not pay for old age homes,or the sick not pay for doctors, or the person whose home is on fire not pay for the fire brigade.Those are rhetoric questions but these are the conservative values which I defend.It seems so obvious to me that we never question when we go into a shop to buy something that we pay for it at the check-out we(I) would never expect someone else to pay just because they have more money than me,however it is obvious that such thoughts are anathema to the majority.

Rohan Swee said...

Anonymous @14:13: Good to know you're not a genuine "looser" - sorry I picked on an innocent!

Anonymous @4:26: One problem, the Brazilians were purposefully flown in to Gort with all expenses paid by that ignorant shortsighted bollocks of the meat processing plant.

You sure you weren't paying for it? Over here the meatpackers run a sweet little racket with the State Department and various church-based do-gooder (i.e., taxpayer-funded) organizations. (Hey, have some pity for our meatpackers - they've been inconvenienced by a few show raids on their heretofore preferred illegal Mexican and Central American serfs, and "refugees" have legal residence status.)

The meatpackers consult State for "refugees", who are flown in, and temporarily housed, fed, and "social serviced", on the taxpayer's tab. This "temporary" part is effected via the Do-Gooder orgs, who get grants from State (i.e., us) to fund their phony-baloney jobs, er, help the refugees. After a few months the newcomers are cut loose by Do-Gooder, Inc., (who move on to the next wave of incomers) and dumped permanently on the state and local welfare/medical rolls, as their very low-wage/no benefit jobs do not permit them to live decently without public subsidy.

Win-win-win.

I'd be surprised if your Irish operators were behindhand in working some variant of these state-of-the-art, total quality business practices.

Anonymous said...

Joe O'Neill. Really you give capitalism and conservatism a bad name! You did well, but not everyone who has not done well coming from poor circumstances isn't to blame.

OF COURSE it's gone too far the other way now. Welfare living is a choice for many and the system discourages initiative and hard work like you put in.

But the issue is balance. There will always be people who, thru little or no fault of their own, are unable to pay for certain essentials.

Melanie

Anonymous said...

About the refugee racket, and I do mean *racket*, here is an excellent no nonsense site, mainly to do with the U.S.:

http://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/

Any parallels in Europe are bound to be much worse...

Rohan Swee said...

Sure, Joe. This is all about the chavs and the trash. Because everybody in the West who is getting screwed by our globo-happy oligarchs is a lazy scrounger. Those native guys who used to man the meat-processing plants at good pay, with decent working conditions? Lazy, tattooed, drunken leeches, every one of 'em. Same with the construction workers, and the hotel workers, and for that matter, quite a few white-collar workers with advanced technical degrees. If they won't work 14 hour days scrubbing my toilets or landscaping my property or wiping my ass in the nursing home for $2.00/hr, who the hell needs 'em? They exist for the economy, not the economy for them. Hey, as long as you label it "anti-socialist", rent-seeking and corruption don't exist! And why should some worthless bozo who slaughters my meat for me deserve decent living conditions? If he didn't want to live like a dog he should have been just like me. Dignity of labor, honest work? Don't make me laugh.

So what if it turns every town and city in a once generally pleasant country into an ugly, dirty, crime-ridden Detroit or São Paolo? Hey, it's all for the best in the best of all possible worlds! *I* can afford to live in a gated community. What possible threat could such a turn of events have to my way of life, or the security, prosperity, and safety of my descendants?

Anonymous said...

True conservatism does not support capitalism (selling out your self and country to the behest of native workers). It obviously appears you are of the late protestant variety.

I've said it before and I'll say it once more : Capitalism and Communism(Socialism even) work hand in hand with each other. The main trouble with these two is that they completely reduce the field to economic and material interests. Man to them has no higher inspiring goals.

Fact is, Nationalism is the third way and integrates a wholistic and higher vision of the nobilitas/race the higher man being the pinnacle of the state. This promotes the best in their racial kinsmen/countrymen while curbing the dsygenics of the herd through soft eugenics. We'll help our own people's welfare, while helping the most gifted reach their fullest potential in congruency with their spirit. It's not against wealth enterprise but does not put it as mans highest purpose or sole reason for existence.
Laissez-faire Capitalism doesn't have any limits and is open to traitors selling out to international corporate interests at the behest of native workers while importing masses of foreigners that simply compounds the problem. These same third world immigrants get free health-care, welfare and acomodation at native tax-payers expense. Here I would place workfare not welfare but at same time not granting one amnesty case to extra-racial aliens. They don't belong in any white territories let alone proliferate at our expense!

Capitalism stemmed directly from 19th Liberalism that promotes nihilism, ego-centered interests as opposed to communal duties, superficiality, destruction of traditions, culture, social identity and rapacious greed etc. It survives on continuous industrial expanision as long as credit is available. Truth is, it's less than 200 yrs old and we have already entered its late stages. Thus as Sovietism failed, so will the US of A's Capitalism. Only that the latters social fabric is so destroyed that it will erupt in violent chaos once the proverbial feces hits the fan.

As for Israel, I see nothing in common with it whatsoever apart from its Muslim problem, which hasn't even hit here yet but surely will. It's a bridge to oil in the East for the Western powers so the US will keep it as long as it needs it and invent a Muslim problem for all to chew on while the real issue is oil. Why someone in SA gives a shit about the Muslim problem because America and Israel play it up appears extremely superficial.

It was capitalism that allowed for the rabble to multiply as mindless consumers and decracinated worker drones sacrificed on the alter of globalism.

Nationalism would never tolerate such an irresponsible racket.

Anonymous said...

"Win-win-win.

I'd be surprised if your Irish operators were behindhand in working some variant of these state-of-the-art, total quality business practices."

In fact they were. Not sure about the exact details, but it went somewhere very similar to how you have described it. Alleged "do-gooder"(aka, marxist egalitarian dogmatics) have helped with the "integration". I;d imagine government granting is behind keep the peace initiatives like the festivals also.
As for extra subsides and grants provided from the Eu to our gov is not entirely unreasonable as is the helping to fund such a scheme with the gombeen man business owner.

Fuckers the lot of them.

SAVANT said...

anon 00.25. A very thoughtful contribution. Hard to disagree, only to ask though, what has nationalism done in the 29th century other than two masssive wars. The kind of nationalism the Scandiavians have - make that had - was relatively benign, but not that of say Germany.

Anonymous said...

Anon. 00:25

Then are you suggesting that nationalism would be a "likely" outgrowth of a general and inevitable socio-economic shit storm in the near term future of the developed world? A social reaction against mostly economic drivers?

Or will Third Worldism subsume all, as it surely will on the current trajectory, leaving smaller units to work out their own regional tribalism?

I am very keen on your idea that Communism and Capitalism both incorporate man as nothing higher than worms blindly seeking their own destiny. But even with an ideal nationalism we are *only* tribal meat if we hold no communal realization that all the schemes of men are not the highest things.

leadpb

Anonymous said...

Right-wing nationalism is all that will save us from being subsumed. There's not too much risk today of the kind of wards that Savant talked about in the '29th' century!

Institutions like the EU, bad and all as they are, have created an environment where this wont happen. What about wars in the Turd World? Let 'em roll, as far as I'm concerned!

Anonymous said...

You may well be right. It is a more cloudy picture in the US, where we obviously don't have "Poles for Poland" and "Brits for Britain" etc.

Problem with warring on in Turdlandia is that *we won't let them.* They can never finish anything-- one side coming to a decisive win-- because we (by proxy as the UN or otherwise) *always* step in to muck it up. Constant interruption and rearmament, ceaseless conflict. White Man's Burden modernized or some such.

I'm just glad we've made it to the 30th Century with a little hope for a better future!

leadpb

SAVANT said...

Stop beating up on me guys, a slip of the finger advanced the argument by 1000 years!

Anonymous said...

"Then are you suggesting that nationalism would be a "likely" outgrowth of a general and inevitable socio-economic shit storm in the near term future of the developed world? A social reaction against mostly economic drivers?"

Well when you pit different ethnic groups to live amongst each other and to compete with other for economic benefits, nationalism is usually the outcome. It does need direction however from leaders and so fourth. The key is racial consciousness, but it always arrives too late in white populations. Modern Whites see themselves as a generic people with no distinct character or identity. This obviously must change if survival and separatism is to occur. To make our networks now is paramount.

"Or will Third Worldism subsume all, as it surely will on the current trajectory, leaving smaller units to work out their own regional tribalism?"

It appears regional tribalism will be the natural outcome when the centralist power structures of the west fall apart, leaving a Balkanisation process akin to the departure of the Soviet Union. Only that Europe has now got non-white ethnicities in their millions to contend it, making the outcome extremely volatile.
Thirdworldism is capitalist and marxist mana. It works both ways. Capitalism depends on depleting the periphery (cheap third world resources) to feed the core (decadent secular cities). It is all take no give so it must burn itself out because its nature is entirely unsustainable. Industrial growth and war are its saviors, with war in an oil rich country all the better).


"I am very keen on your idea that Communism and Capitalism both incorporate man as nothing higher than worms blindly seeking their own destiny. But even with an ideal nationalism we are *only* tribal meat if we hold no communal realization that all the schemes of men are not the highest things."

True, man must be overcome, but a united Europe can exist with independent principalities and regions just like the Holy Roman Empire of Germania being the continuation of the ancient Roman Imperium , Europe's highest tradition where man could realize himself knowing that something higher than himself existed in the form of a supra-national mystic. In this case as Julius Evola once had in mind, a supra-national Mannerbund bringing back to memory of a racially inclusive elected nobility reigning in honors of Lords and elected Imperator. This I see as the substitute for the (Semitic in origin) Catholic faith and its vatican centre as a force for Europe. Our racial hereditary is a blood kernel to which we can celebrate its highest realization as a spiritual for for Europe (Ireland of course will be its own existing within it). There is a spiritual dimension to the Nordic race that has been dismembered.
A European Super-state will not do and In fairness what separates a "European Union" from an "African Union" if there is no higher destiny but one based on merely material economic interests? The Imperium brings back what is sacred.

Anonymous said...

"anon 00.25. A very thoughtful contribution. Hard to disagree, only to ask though, what has nationalism done in the 29th century other than two masssive wars. The kind of nationalism the Scandiavians have - make that had - was relatively benign, but not that of say Germany."

What has nationalism done in the 29th century? Nothing yet I believe. But in the previous century Nationalism was contingent on various factors of the times, such as WW1 , the Jewish boycott of Germany, non-Abomb existence(until the end), and the rise of the Soviet monster . All of those previous "nationalisms" were expansions of centralist nation-states and not the regional principalities that were destroyed under the Versaille treaty.
These are the kind of nationalisms that extended the nation-state to the behest of the Royal powers that they usurped in true Jacobite revolutionary fashion. Saying that though, had Hitler not made monumental gambles to pre-emptively strike the Soviets, Europe's blood would have been saved and PCism non-existant today with excellence and high standards throughout.

Saying that though, Ireland got it right under Collins, it's just a pity he was set up by DeValera.
However, we did win or right to sovereignty and rightly stayed Neutral during the "emergency".

Anonymous said...

Do you take that its just a coincidence that the decline of Christianity in Europe was followed by what we have now. It was Christian Zeal that kept Europe from being overrun by nonwhites long ago. Men like Martel at Tours, Valette in Malta, Philip II at Lepanto and Sibioski at Vienna were motivated by this. No wonder the multiculti loving EU hate Christianity. Compare Martel and the rest to the motivations of the likes of Wolfiwitz and of Pearle for sending young white men to die in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now we've got a hideous creature being passed off as the Archbishop of Canterbury who's dealing with a breakaway of American gay Anglican bishops and a Pope who kisses muslim ass with his interfaith dialogue bs. Its hard to imagine any European leaders apart from maybe in Serbia saying our army will fight for our white people to defend our land from these interlopers who are gradually taking over our countries.

SAVANT said...

anon 20.51. I believe that there's something in what you say, see my post http://irishsavant.blogspot.com/2008/03/do-we-need-christianity-4.html

However, let's not forget all the awful stuff Christianity inflicted on us as well.

Anonymous said...

Christianity does keep some cohesion, sacredness and conservatism among whites of the West. It was Aryanised by the Germans to some extent. While it is still around in Europe I have refrained from unrestricted criticism of the "faith" but neither have I encouraged it. I would rather have Christianity die a slow death, and not to be revived one inch, because the damage it has done to European thought processes and genuine clarity has been irredeemable. Christian memes destroyed the Roman empire and even if Martel had created the second continuation(Holy Roman Empire), the Ghibellines who wanted separation from the church as a separate Empire were beaten back by the narrowness of the Guelphs whom were backed Catholic Rome.

Christianity has had its time and done its damage (only to transform into a secular dogmatic humanism), now it is time to let it die for a higher clarity more truer to the Aryan spirit.

On the flip side, Christianity squandered the best of European race's energies and robbed the Indo-European/Aryan/ Heathen of their identity (which is not derived from the middle East or Semitic peoples).

Celibacy killed off thousands of the most intellectual and virtuous of Europes blood. The crusades were a complete waste of Merovingian warrior Nordics with not a trace of a blondes left throughout that region. Millions of the best racial blood have been terrifyingly wasted. Monotheistic driven Martel murdered some of the best of the Heathen Saxon nobility and forced the remainders upon death to convert or be executed. So dogmatism, blind fanaticism, the boilings of hatred over control of the passions is what Christianity (a fucking desert cult of lowlifes). Christianity did not create the warrior bands, ir dod not create the great Aryan Frankish, Saxon or Gothic nobilities. It's a priestly "faith based" morbid undertaking of stagnant contemplation opposed to Europes long held warrior spirit of action. The very scriptures deny what is more truer to form for Indo-Europeans/whites (that is, denying the natural plurality of different vocations congruent to each beings nature that existed in Ancient Rome, ancient Sparta, ancient Vedic India and pre-Christian Nordic societies). Essentially, Martel when slaughtering his fellow racial kin was acting on forces he was completely unconscious of (that being the subliminal "terror" and vengeance underlying christian priestly pettiness).

To sum up, we will take what is left of these Christians and mold their view into far more sacred and more in tune with their innate racial archetypes. It has mocked our higher traditions and by its very design it was incapable of channeling the antagonistic forces of the blood that found its outpouring in negative manifestations elsewhere leading to our current predicament. What you need more of is intelligent and bold leadership, not Christians.

SAVANT said...

anon 23.29. In many ways we've retained the worst aspects of Christianity and repackaged them as PC/multiculti/cultural relevance while retaining the sanctimonious 'only I know the truth' dimension of the religious believer.

Anonymous said...

@Savant

The sanctimonious 'only I know the truth' dimension, has retarded genuine introspection in every field from "religion" to state-craft and Marxist egalitarian theology. It should be noted that pre-Christian/abrahamic spiritualities (such as Europe's Noble Heathenism if you will) were not "religions" in the sense of slave like morality, a devotional worship, morbidity of the flesh with "sins" nor did they give way to fantasy's & escapism of the belief of a "heaven" above, ultimately separated from contingent existence. Blame modern fantasies and inept escapist utopias on the Judeo-Christian "faiths". Over 2000 yrs this is the wretched legacy it has left us.

Rather, the spiritualities were actively experienced as a clarity of thought with a deep understanding of the cosmos (rather than superstition -- although there was an aspect of what was considered "sacred").

SAVANT said...

yes, anon 14.01 - primitive religios such as pantheism were much more 'natural' and weren't hung up on the scribblings of unknown malcontents.

18 k@@rt said...

The real reason for fighting both world wars, was the creation of the state of Israel!

you guys need to study your history in greater depth, and not the officially sanctioned fairytale you were taught in history class.

look up Benjamin Freedman.