Saturday, 21 June 2008

Immigration: A Refresh (3)

OK, a comment from Harce on the previous post. I have to agree that there's a lot of truth in what he says. On reflection, I think that, bad and all as things are, there's no way that there could be an immigrant population representing one third of the native Irish.

So here's his comment:


yeah, lets run away in panic. whoever wrote that has next to no idea of what he/she is talking about.using the PPS nb as a base for the calculation means that the wannabe mathematician assumes that every immigrant who ever worked in ireland is still here (well, deducting the 500k at random wont fix a false assumption).in fact - of course

I don't know the figure; nobody does - but I can bet that most of thus PPS nbs are dead - loads of immigrants come in only for the summer season - which is the case for majority of students (but fear no more, the Netherlands opened their borders for Poles, that would stop any student), then the child thing - whatever you believe immigrants are not really in to the whole bunny thing - being in a foreign country, often with high stress levels and spending most of the time in work does not sound like the best mating conditions to me, and even if - I know people who came back to wherever they came from just because they had children, which again falsifies the figues given.

And as a simple conclusion - beware of the immigrant bogeyman or as an old anarchist proverb says: "no war between people, no peace between classes" - there's loads of politicians making money/getting to power over fictitious threats and immigration is one of them - unless you live be a war zone with loads of refuges, migrants will just move out if there is an actual problem with their numbers.


Some closing comment from me here: First, haven't heard the "no war between people, no peace between classes" for a long time. Bakunin came up with it I think and it was based on Marxist principles. But my comment is this: The very best way to avoid war between peoples is to avoid potentially explosive mixing. As I said in the original post, some immigrants can be very easily assimilated, others will give rise to endless problems. Avoid these problems by not having them here. I think that's pretty simple.

And by the way, far from making immigrants a bogeyman, to me it's abundantly clear that nobody, least of all our timid politicians, can even raise the issue in polite company.

6 comments:

Rohan Swee said...

...whatever you believe immigrants are not really in to the whole bunny thing - being in a foreign country, often with high stress levels and spending most of the time in work does not sound like the best mating conditions to me, and even if - I know people who came back to wherever they came from just because they had children...

...migrants will just move out if there is an actual problem with their numbers.


Those are pretty strong assertions to make without backup. I assume he's referring to immigrants to Ireland, and not to migrants in general. I have no doubt they could describe select types of migrants, under select circumstances, and for all I know they're generally true for migrants to Ireland. But I'm a bit skeptical, since these claims are demonstrably false when applied to patterns of immigrant behavior in my own country. The point is, though, that it isn't necessary to speculate on, say, immigrant reproductive behavior based on subjective impressions of their stress levels, when I'm sure stats on immigrant fertility exist.

Anonymous said...

what rubbish from Hartce, or whever his name is. This is just his opinion. How the hell does he know what African mating practices are like? Then again.......

Anonymous said...

Savant..

I posted the previous contribution on Immigration:refresh 2.

The figures I used were from the department of trade and the CSO can be accessed online by anyone.

The other figures which I stated were speculative but are I believe reasonable.
For example I said ..

'' figure of 725,303 immigrants were granted PPS numbers (Sources: Dept. of Trade and the CSO).It is reasonable to expect these people had some dependents with them and gave birth while here to more.

So lets say a figure of 100,000,which is probably a conservative estimate.''

The figure of 100,000 dependents above would consist of children brought with immigrants,children born here to them and/or a non working spouse.


The figure of approximately 100,000 granted leave to remain under the IBC scheme was arrived at by analysis I previously posted on your blog .

For information ,I am not a mathematician.The figures I posted and my analysis can be contradicted by others with their own verifiable facts and figures and by a superior analysis.

So far the replies have not done that.
I have said the immigrant figure is more likely to be around 20%.
I believe that to be a reasonable conclusion.
I would like to know the true figure.

Rhein said...

Immigrants don't look very stressed to me. They just prance around like they own the damn place. And if you look at the difference of birthrate between indigenous Whites of any country and their foreign "enrichers" you'll see that it's about 4 to 1 in their favour. It's not uncommon to see a family of foreigners with 4-6 childrens. Not so common amongst Whites though.

Harce is talking through his arse.

Anonymous said...

The problem I see it with anonymous 18.32 is that he/she takes no account of the numbers that might have gone back. This applies especially to those from Eastern Europe.

Obvioulsy those from Africa are a horse of s different color (whoops!)

Anonymous said...

rhein's point is very valid. the reproudcition rates of Africans and Romam are way in excess of the native population. This wont hit home for about another generation. But boy, will it then.

Taigue