Sunday, 18 November 2007

Brits and Paddies

I have just authorised publication of a comment from Anonymous (he keeps writing in) but am unable to find the post against which it was made. That's an annoying feature of Blogger, by the way.

Anyway, this commentator has not been impressed with your Savant. From memory he makes the point that Paddies fled from Ireland to England just like my unfavoured immigrants from the Third World today and caused all sorts of mayhem and were the butt of countless Paddy jokes.

My response: Absolutely correct. We fled in huge numbers from the broken-down theocracy that was Ireland up to recently, and those fleeing were comprised of:

* Lowest level labourers from the most backward parts of the country (and that's saying something!)

* Criminals, who, through the unique Irish judicial system, were given the option of jail or emigrating to England.

* Welfare spongers, typically itinerants, so Mr. McDonagh and his 22 children would suddenly present themselves at Camden Town Hall and look for accommodation. (Meanwhile claiming simultaneous benefits from a dozen social welfare offices in Ireland)

* And the coup de grace, the IRA immigrants started blowing the place up between 1970 and the late nineties.

Naturally enough, these immigrants were as welcome as garlic to a vampire, and the Brits would have been well advised to mount a machine gun at Fishguard and mow them down as they came off the boats.

So let's agree on that. However, and it's a big however, the Irish eventually seamlessly integrated into the British way of life and are now largely indistinguishable from the native Brits. They also, and this is important, became successful in every sphere of activity, to the extent that those of Irish extraction, plus a new generation of well educated professionals. are now apparently on average wealthier than the native Brits.

This has not happened, is not happening and it will not happen with black immigrants. We have seen all over the world that blacks fall to the bottom of the social and economic pile. As I've shown on many occasions (see here and here) IQ levels are the main determinant of this, and blacks, on average, have lower IQ levels.

Anonymous refers to the many African doctors in the UK who keep the health service operating. True, and there are vast numbers of blacks who are more intelligent than vast numbers of whites. But on average they're lower. It's important for individual intelligent blacks not to be offended by this. They should see themselves as intelligent individuals. I'm totally at ease for example in acknowledging that Jews are on average more intelligent than other whites, (your Savant excepted, needless to say).

So in summary, superficially a good point by Anonymous, but demolished as usual by my unimpeachable logic.


Anonymous said...

How very convenient of you not to publish the comments I made. The topic was migration to Ireland. I have to agree one point with you though, only the very worst of the migrants will end up in Ireland, why, because there are several countries where the effect of the contributions of the immigrants are well documented and respected, rather than of people like you who emphasise the problems of the few. The best of the African brains will rather go to the USA, Canada and the UK, dynamic economics with opportunities. The ones who manage to make it to Ireland have to be the idiots, the uneducated and the lazy. They should have themselves to blame, because in the process they meet small minded people like your self, who claims to know all but with no substance. In every race and country, there are always some minorities. The Irish in the UK and the US are now better off than the natives?, may be some are and you will find this with every immigrant group, the Asians in the UK, the chinese in Canada. It may be a shock to you, but Ireland had one of the lowest GDP of the original 15 European states. I think you will see that you have met your match. This is your blog, but be bold enough to publish and be damned or forever keep your opinions to your self. Publish my comments and then your reply for everyone to see rather than hide mine and reply to it

Anonymous said...

It always amuses me how people went on about anti-Irish racism in England, while it was publicly acknowledged here that England was the dumping ground for our criminals and misfits. If a criminal was so obnoxious that even Mountjoy didn't want him, the judge ordered him to take the next boat to Britain.

Anonymous said...

You can say all the things about the irish in the UK and Australia and the US that you're saying about blacks and other immigrants to Ireland. Also the high birth rates.

SAVANT said...

Anonymous, I HAVE publsihed your comments, including the earlier one, but dont know against which post that one was set. Can you enlighten us?

You're pushing an open door. I know Ireland was relatively poor and have said it even in this post. The difference is that we were/are capable of reaching the top of the poll both at home and abroad.

African immigrants to Europe have all sunk down to the bottom of the pile, being drastically over-represented in terms of crime, welfare dependency, drugs etc.

Every black-run country is a disaster. Why should we even consider drawing such problems on oursleves?

any suggestions?

Anonymous said...

"The best of the African brains will rather go to the USA, Canada and the UK, dynamic economics with opportunities"
By this logic I take it that African immigrants to the US, Canada and the UK are doing better than the locals?

The Irish in the UK and the US are now better off than the natives?,may be some are and you will find this with every immigrant group, the Asians in the UK, the chinese in Canada
The Irish and later generations of Irish immigrants in the U.S. are not generally better off than US "Natives", there is an interesting study in the book "The millionaire next door" about the ability to pass on money values within immigrant groups in the U.S.
YOU will find that certain immigrant groups do far better than others: Chinese in Britain (not just in Canada), Indians (but not Pakistanis or Bangladeshis) in Britain.

The entire point that Irish Savant makes (which you seem to miss) is that not all immigrants are the same - British immigrants are not like Chinese immigrants who are not like African immigrants. There are cultural and particularly religio-cultural traits that must be considered.

SAVANT said...

Pity about all the 'anonymouses'. Don't know why they don't use a nomme de guerre. The commnet above from underlines what I say.

Some, immigrants, most notably Jews, make a huge positive contrbution to the host countries. Others, most notably blacks, mulsims and gypsies (Roma) do not. The ovedince for this is so overwhelming i dont know how it's even a subject for debate.

It seems sensible to me then that you discourage immigrants who have a negative impact. Again, as I said, the British would have been fully justified in turning away Irish immigrants for the last 70 years.

Anonymous said...

Just read this post and im outraged!! Who built England? Who won the last war for them? Who supplied.... i could go on.

My family came over here in 1948 and have been hard-working, law-aboiding citizens all their lives. All of us are now professional. How dare you tar us all with the one brush.

SAVANT said...

Sorry - the irish immigrants won WW2 for Britain? Well blow me, I never knew that.

You make the same mistake so many others do. Scrounge around for an exception (law-abiding Nigerian, tolerant Mulsim, honest gypsy) and all arguments are solved.

Anonymous said...

This post is spot on. It's true that we had a lot of trouble with irish Immigrants, but equally they played a vital role in the economy, defence forces and health sector.

As Savant says, they have now seamlessly merged in to the general population. On the other hand, as he says, Jamaicans and Africans will always stand out and have, sadly, become synomymous with crime, violence and all sorts of social probelms

Anonymous said...

Wlld done Savant. at last somebidy Irish prepared to admit the truth about us and the Brits.

Anonymous said...

Admit is, race is behind all of this.

Anonymous said...

Leanard, you are right. This is about race and until we become a society where people have opportunities based on their abilities and not colour, then some of those people are going to feel like outsiders, they become hopeless and antagonise the rest of the society. The Jews and the Irish can easily blend into the society, whereas the blacks cannot

Anonymous said...

So the Irish emigrated in large numbers. I don't see how this gives the rest of the world residency rights on our national territory.

I regard emigration from Ireland as a crime by England.(their ruling class actually)

Anonymous said...


England is now called, Cockroach England.

Englishmen are insulted as, Shakespeare cockroaches.

Englishwomen are insulted as, Thatcher cockroaches.

English bashing is called, Cockroach bashing.

It is also known that the Thatcher cockroaches (englishwomen) use dogs for sexual intercourse, sucking and vaginal lick.

Thatcher cockroaches (englishwomen) have no respect anywhere and nobody goes out with them, due to the dog sex stigma attached with them.

Nobody marries the Thatcher cockroaches because they all have sex with dogs.


Anonymous said...

What a load of tosh from Irish people on here. You make me ashamed. Sometimes I tried to defend us in the UK but now I wonder if I should just have kept quiet. Emigration a crime of England? One person I met there made the point that the economy was doing better under the Brits and when the Free State took over, it plunged..of course he's making the point that our freedom to rule ourselves was wasted on us. We then invaded the UK in mammoth numbers and now when others from the rest of the world want to come and experience some prosperity for themselves, we are unable to accept that we may have to share out the opportunities as the Brits have done and give dignity to people. No. It's too much for this singular nation of morons and idiots and igornamuses of a scale that must make God himself cringe to accept..well we will get our comeuppance. We are simply our own worst enemies.

Anonymous said...

Christ some of the comments i have read here make me wanna murder ! lets start at the beginning shall we , if the english had stayed in their own fucking country there would never have been any Irish immigrants in the uk ,if the engish had not outlawed education for Irish people the immigrant they received would have been a greater benefit to them , if the english didn't murder Irish people , then the likes of the IRA would not have carried out bombing campaigns ,yes the Irish did save the uk during ww2 , ironically with food Laughs !!! yes the uk would have been starved into submission without the food from Ireland , the fact that thousands died of TB in Ireland during this time escapes a lot of people , malnutrition is a major cause of tb ! for 700 yrs Ireland was a dumping ground for englands criminals , and I'm not talking about welfare cheats , we gave you pikeys ,you gave us mass murderers , reading these comments proves to me that the old english pathological hatred of any and all things Irish is alive and well , speaking of criminals hows that annexation of iraq going for ye ?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1.28. OK, a lot of what you say is true, but you;re going back hundreds of years. That makes no sense really. The Swedes and Danes would hate each other if they took that approach.

If Ireland did feed Britai during WW2 (a dunbious proposition in itself) you did it because you got well paid for it, not through altruism.

Jeremy G.

Anonymous said...

The Truth at last

Anonymous said...

James - you dont believe this load of bollocks, do you???


Anonymous said...

It's a well known fact that Irish landlords were as bad - worse than the "English" occupiers.

The BRITISH on the mainland treated their own ENGLISH poor with just as much contempt and brutality as they did the Irish.

The BRITISH black and tans were bastards and popular opinion suggests that Mosley a controversial Englishman was out to obliterate them.

The Royals are NOT exactly English.

Queen Vic was a German and the "English" prime minister of her time was Benjamin Dis-raeli a Spanish Jew.

Lots of "English" prime ministers come with names like Callaghan or Lloyd but this appears to be irrelevant it seems?

Yes the 'Irish' may have fed BRITAIN (and the English!) during the war (and profited out of it) BUT... they also supplied German U boats!

Anonymous said...

Load of tosh tarring all Irish immigrants as criminals, illiterate, bottom of the barrel etc.
My parents left Tipperary in the fifties, both educated. My father never drew dole money in his life. He was the most decent and respectable man I've ever known.

SAVANT said...

N. I didnt say and am not saying that all irish were like this. My own elder brother spent his full working life over there as a doctor.

I'm saying that the people who went over were proportionally unrepresentative of the population at large.

If you're a Pape how did you end up in Israel?

Anonymous said...

"the Irish eventually seamlessly integrated into the British way of life and are now largely indistinguishable from the native Brits."

I consider the Irish to be 'Brits' - ie. people from the British Isles. Let's not forget we were all one state until the 1920s.

I have Irish ancestry on both my parents' sides, and many Irishmen will have English ancestry, through the Norman settlers, plantations in Ulster and the Anglo-Irish ruling classes.

J Bull said...

UBN. My view also. I'm part Celtic roots and agree that the Irish integfrated pretty seamlessly. Especially after a generation or tow. OTOH, blacks and especially Muslims seem to be worse in the later generations.

john said...

I find this post interesting being of Celtic ancestry, as well as a history buff. My family on the surname side came to america in 1742 from england, my father's mother's family from Ireland in 1823, and my mothers side from Ireland in 1856 and 1902 respectively. [father/mother] The history of the mistreatment of the Irish at the hands of the english is long and regrettable.
But, the fact that the Irish can immigrate to england and do well is not open to argument. {the reasons for their need to immigrate are certainly open to same and will not be attempted here} The reason for this fact is not just the superior Celtic mind and soul, but the fact that the english culture is very similar and is of the SAME racial stock. People, we have GOT to get past this english/irish thing [not that I am against nationalism or shared culture of kith and kin ; nay far from it] and "hang together", lest we shall surely hang separately as is now the case. The FACTS are that no black or brown run country has ever been successful nor created anything. Even the "successful" one[s] such as india are only fairly well so due to the infrastructure and systems put in place by white folk. Same thing with "yellow" countries ; where would japan be without the infusion of technology by the west before WW2 and the complete rebuilding and capitalisation by the same folks after? And china? Basically stone age before the war and wholly buoyed by us thru [wrongheaded] investment, stolen [and sold by the clintons] technology and our insistence upon buying their junk to the detriment of ourselves.
Our host's point is somewhat well taken [I might argue a wee bit about certain Ireland/England dynamics] but is unassailable by any means of logic or anecdotal evidence. There are vast differences in not only IQ, but genetically instilled values and moral standards between the different races , and they DO NOT mix well. Period.
Sorry to ramble; I actually wanted to post to challenge something that was said. It was mentioned that jews bring good to their host countries/cultures. This is patently incorrect. Whilst the jew is universally talented and creating wealth, although usually only for themselves and their kin - a trait we would do well to emulate - their "contributions" to society do and have always had nothing but a demoralising and degrading effect on their host [white] cultures. Just look at the decline of any western society that has had a major influx of jews into it. Debt skyrockets and morals plummet. Through their control of media and government/"legal" institutions, they enslave the native white population into debt and sin, resulting in the fall of the nation and culture. History shows this to be true and inarguable to the honest observer. Lets keep this in mind please.
I'll climb down now... :)

Lorne said...

As much as the English and Irish enjoy slanging each other, the fact is that they are of the same genetic stock. At the end of the day they get along rather well and no one is upset when the son takes up with a fine Irish girl (or the other way around).

Not so the blacks. All the cultural Marxism in the world cannot turn a turkey into an eagle. When confronted with this simple fact, all the left can do is name-call and prate on about 'hate speech.'

Clogheen said...

I agree totally with the last two posts. I'm Irish and I always find that the English/British are far and away the easiest people to interact with. Not just the anguage but also similar culture etc.

Anonymous said...

Yes the 'Irish' may have fed BRITAIN (and the English!) during the war (and profited out of it) BUT... they also supplied the RAF German U boat hunting flying boat at Foynes!

Fixed that for you!

Harry-ca-Nab said...

I do love a good fight.

This is quite interesting

British and Irish DNA

whorefinder said...

Claiming "seamless integration"---as untrue as that is for blacks, and as unproven as that is in most situations----also ignores the present tense.

In other words, the left says "screw you people suffering now from the bad immigrants, my grandchildren will have nice restaurants."

America was deluged with Irish immigrants in the 1840s. They are now "seamlessly integrated" and are held up by leftists as a counterargument whenever people like me start grousing about illegals here.

Except, of course, that from roughly the 1840s to the 1930s, the crime and corruption brought by Irish immigrants made life a hell for those living with them. The Five Points in NY was a wasteland of gang warfare, and generations of Tammany Hall-style politics resulted in the progressive movement to clean up dirty (i.e. Irish) politicians. And, of course, prohibition was put in to curb the genetic Irish drinking problem---and we know what a disaster that was.

It wasn't till the Italian/Jewish gangsters of the 1930s deliberately froze out the last of the Irish bad boys that the Irish truly became respectable---they had nothing else to be.

Italians, meanwhile, took until the 1970s or so to start waving the flag---and the Italian neighborhoods till then, despite what romance Hollywood might tell you, were just as awful as the Five Points once were.

Bottom line: even if you could guarantee longterm seamless integration of blacks into a culture---an integration that consistently has NEVER happened in world history, unlike other integrations---you are ignoring/downplaying and subjecting present and future people with vast amounts of crime and abuse while the "integration" gets on with it.

I'm of partial Irish descent here in America and I can tell you hanging out in the Five Points in the 1840s and 50s would have been hell on me---I can only imagine a non-Irishman's feelings.

in conclusion, rape!

SAVANT said...

Whorefinder, I take your point that ANY high level of immigration causes societal disruption, And I can well imagine what the Irish of the mid 19th century were like. Hence I support a nation's right to ban or severely limit immigration irrespective of race,religion etc.

However - and it's a big however - immigrants from Europe to other European-founded countries will generally over time seamlessly merge in. That most certainly cannot be said for Africans, Muslims and the like.

vince36 said...

Savant implied that most of the irish who fled ireland in the twenties and thirties were "low level laborers and of a criminal class" What a load of unadulterated crap!. since when were hard working men designated with the appendage "low level? as for criminals most "low level" simple "culshies" were devout catholics and not apt to engage in criminal activity,I know ! because my father took us kids to england when he couldnt find work in Ireland .You state you wouldnt have blamed England for refusing us entry , Maybe your right, Then we wouldnt have had to grow up hearing the epitath "irish bastards" on a day to day basis,. As soon as my family were able we left England in our rear veiw mirror and left for Canada where we all married and raised families , Today i consider myself a proud Canadian citizen , I couldnt see myself having english born children who would have to constantly explain that in spite of their Irish name they were "loyal" subjects of the crown ,.too much "baggage " for my liking . It is with great amusment that today i see english people christening their children Kevin , Liam, sean, etc etc has the tide against Irish people in England turned that much ? i dont really know or care ,

SAVANT said...

Vince36. I had not meant to equate 'low level labourers' with 'criminal classes' and I think my post made that very clear. I'm not sure how you managed to take that construction from it.

Of course the majority were hard-working and honest but, human nature being what it is, if you're doing the most menial work you're going to be viewed as somewhat inferior. It's understandable that the English looked at us that way.

And you do know that courts here used to offer jail or England as alternatives to offenders? At one stage something like 15% of prisoners in British jails were Irish.

My own brother, a civil engineer, emigrated in the fifties and he said he understood the negative attitude of the English to the Irish.

All I'm trying to do with the post is to explain the basis of the negativity towards us at that time.

vincent danagher said...

negativity indeed? The average eglishman even if he,s a decent "bloke" veiws ,or rather veiwed the Irish negativly ,Even when they describe a dog as a "red" setter rather than a "irish" setter ,St columba is described as a celtic monk rather than a "irish monk" same with St Aidan,Edmund Burke is described as a great "British" Statesman not a word about him being Irish born .Now im not stupid enough to include all english people into the same bag as it were, I also realize that Charles Dickens chronicled the poverty of the English "so called" lower classes debter prisons , and the squalor of 18th century london , so ask yourself , What sympathy could the Irish in Ireland expect from the British establishment at that time, the answer is NONE!The so called famine and the ugly sore of the six counties sets the tone of anglo/irish relations to this day. Though i havent lived in Ireland for more years than I care to mention I have fond memories of my childhood there and Ireland holds the graves of my parents who returned there in their old age ,

Anonymous said...

Roman Catholic Guy Fawkes The Start Of The Warnings! Father Of Anonymous!
How did England deal with a corrupt puritan government/parliament?'scoverup

Chris Fogarty - The Irish Holocaust

5.2 million (conservative figure) death toll of Irish Holocaust.

Irish Holocaust (no famine) backed by Rothschilds for Oliver Cromwell’s invasion (One day I will put a separate post on Rothschild stooge Oliver Cromwell (agent of the crypto jew Montagu family) and the English revolution, when King Charles1 was executed. )

British Jew major org – celebrate Oliver Cromwell

The Celts Called Themselves Hebrews! ?

“Hundreds of thousands of Irish were sold into slavery by the British and brought to North America and the Caribbean. The men were literally worked to death, and the women used to produce an army of half-breed slaves. The Irish were the first slaves brought to the New World (and they were CHILDREN) -not the Africans. But somehow, the Irish overcame this and thrived in America.” (Irish slaves were treated worse than Black slaves.) by black professor, Dr. Tony Martin, Ph.D.

Muslim Arabs and Jews Ran the African Slave Trade. (Muslim Obama and his Muslim terrorist Brotherhood in cahoots with the J$ws afterall he did his training with
A Review of Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals (Obama and Clintons)

Clinton killers (horrifying)
(white) SLAVERY
World and American History