Thursday, 3 May 2007

Zimbabwe 2007 = South Africa 2027?

When the white junta that ruled Zimbabwe was overthrown in 1980, the country, despite going through a vicious guerrilla war, was Africa’s breadbasket, a thriving economy, food exporter, clean streets, excellent public services. Within months of taking over as President, Robert Mugabe launched a war against the main opposition tribe, slaughtering thousands and laying waste to vast tracts of land. He then, despite everyone turning a blind eye, proceeded to do what all African leaders do – plunder the country’s resources for the benefit of himself and his power base. And this in turn lead to the standard decline experienced by post-independence Africa. Mugabe effortlessly turned his country from breadbasket to basket case.

South Africa was/is different. Majority rule in 1994 was accompanied by much happy talk of the ‘technicolour nation’. Your Savant, though initially skeptical, was won over on seeing Mandela wearing Francois Pienaar’s No. 7 shirt at the WC Final in 1995. This really would be different. Alas, despite a very large non-black minority compared to Zimbabwe, and a number of good years initially, the familiar rot set in in due course.

Mandela could have swung it, but he’s just one man, and even at that stage was very old ("Majority rule will apply-we just hope we will never have to use it"). He still tries his best, and recently upbraided his followers for behaving towards whites "as if they had been defeated on the battlefield, which they weren't".
But the instincts of the rest of the ANC- leaders and activists- are frankly, even brutally, majoritarian. The officials who surround him include not a single white face – they’ve all been weeded out of the "rainbow". On a broader canvas, the overwhelming pressure for affirmative action appointments within the state machine and the broader labour market is felt by many non-Africans to be a reneging on the ANC's pledge of non-racism, as well as having catastrophic economic impact. The spirit of "we are the masters now" is too strong and too visible to be missed.

African whites know only too well what that means and are fleeing the country in droves. A recent study from the South African Institute of Race Relations (SAIRR) revealed the stunning fact that one million white South Africans - almost a fifth - have left the country in the past ten years. Currently the effect is disguised by the fact that many skilled whites and Asians over the age of 50, with retirement in their sights, are staying on, providing a sorely needed cadre of skills. But as this group moves out of the labour market the full effects of the departure of so many of their younger colleagues will be revealed. Since almost all the country's professional and managerial skills are in white and Asian hands, the result is a huge and desperately damaging de-skilling of the economy and society. Many others would flee but are impeded by exchange controls and the collapse of the Rand.

The report says that "The white population is getting older, which means the white taxpayers are only going to contribute to the economy for the next twenty years. There would have to be a huge influx of skilled workers to fill this gap. This, unfortunately, is not the case." Indeed, in a recent visit to that country your Savant found clear-cut evidence of Africa Syndrome as covered in this post and others.

Spiraling decline seems inevitable. This could ultimately lead to all-out race war, which would of course be disastrous. But not as bad as the World Cup of 2010 being screwed up. Which seems increasingly likely. I’ll bet Sepp (King Rat) Blatter is shitting himself now. Promising to stage the event in Africa was one of the reasons he held on to his job last time. Poetic justice if it came back to bite him in his fat, corrupt ass.


Frederik v. B. said...

I've left SA for Ireland. I believe the situation is even worser than you say. Anyone I know (white) would get out if they could. But it's not that easy to get into suitable (Western) countries.

Rene Osterloh said...

I'm a native born white south african. I think its much too soon to know. What we do know though is that having whites like Frederik fleeing the country brings about the very thing they decry.

Frederick van B. said...

I'm sad for you Rene. Deep down you know I'm right - your klinging to the hope that you might be right, but you're not, and you know it.

Anonymous said...

Rene osterich would be more like it!

Althea said...

I left South Africa with sadness in 1993, but looking back, I am extremely happy in California and have amassed fortune such as I could never have done in South Africa in a very short time (the government would have taken what I earned before I could invest it where in the US, the governement actually helps you to invest for your own future!).

I am far more prosperous, now and my kids are well on their way to financial security. Could anyone ask for more?

South Africa is a very beautiful country, but my advice to you is to take heed of what has happened to the countries to the north of you. Get out of Africa while you can and before it's too late. You're not getting any younger and the world is waiting for you.

Remember the great times that you had in Africa and treasure them forever, as you build a much better future in another country - a country of your choice - not your obligation.

You have to leave to appreciate how very much you are being deprived of.


Anaele said...

Althea: Since you left in 1993, I am not sure what you mean by 'great times'. Do you me the apartheid era? If that is what you mean, will you consider the period of oppression 'great times' for the totality of South Africans, white and black? By running away, are you being loyal to you notion of whiteness or your country? Also is this a better disposition than the current situation you criticise?

To the writer of the article: I hope you could enlighten yourself more on contemporary South African politics, economy and history. Yes, there is a high rate of crime and HIV in South Africa but the statistics show that the economy is more robust today. Whites as well as blacks have generally benefited from this growth. Over a million new homes have been built to cater for people previously neglected by the apartheid regime. Soweto is transforming radically from a ghetto to a city with tarred roads, street lights and running water. Universities and trade institutes have been desegregated and as such are turning out educated people of all racial identities in South Africa. While you may be of the opinion that white flight is equal to total deskilling of the economy, these graduates will take the places of those who leave. On a personal level, I hold a PhD and my wife is a medical doctor. We are both not South Africans. We hope to relocate from the west to South Africa in the near future; we and others like us will be more than happy to buy the homes and replace jobs and industries abandoned by people like Althea and Frederick, on the lovely coasts of the western cape. We know other well educated (Harvard, Wharton and Oxbrige grads) from other African countries that are working in Jo-burg’s financial hub today. It pleases you to suggest the 2010 world cup will be a failure; note however that I am aware of the huge investments made on the ground towards its hosting. I will not argue with you on that. We will just wait for 2010.

Do not forget that all nations have histories of success and failure. Zimbabwe today is less like Ireland of the famine period or Europe in the two wars. Eastern Europe is only rising out of the stagnation of its communist and post-communist histories. All nations will rise, fall, and rise again and so will post-colonial Africa. National success and rebirth is not a white privilege.

SAVANT said...

This post from anaele is well argued, but I have little doubt that time wil prove me right. Despite what you might think, I dont wish SA ill and don't want to see the World Cup screwed up. I have done pro bono work in SA a long time ago - when i was more innocent - and was thoroughly disillusioned. Nobody gave a shit other tan to line theor own pockets

Anonymous said...

Savant, I have read with interest your rather biased and racists comments. Until recently the Irish were the ones leaving Ireland like bats out of hell. The UK and the USA have the evidence. You obviously missed all the Paddy jokes about the Irish in England. You have taken the time to pick out the worst articles and statistics to confirm your biased and twisted mind. The NHS in the UK will collapse without the doctors and nurses from Africa, you seem to have taken a position before the argument and like a child I hope that your brain will develop in time to understand the basics that every individual is different and colour has nothing to do with IQ, but being a white male, it is in your interest to continue to propagate such a myth. You will rather have South Africa and the oppression, yet freedom is important to you, but not to the majority of africans who lived under such terrible conditions. For someone with such high IQ, your ignorance is only too clear for all to see.

Attilathehun said...

There are none so blind as those who WILL not see--You are farting against thunder savvy, most (probably all) the denialists above have never experienced African savagery. They are unable to imagine it, as it is totally alien to everything they know. They are furthermore so brainwashed by the idiot box that every thought emanating from them is merely just an echo of whatever agenda is being pushed by the massmedia. To be brutally frank (sorry Frank), they are slightly better educated/dressed/smelling counterparts of their African brethren. In short, thinking has become a lost art. When you start reaching the conclusion that actually MOST of the world is fucked, you have to start contemplating alternatives not necesarily based on an accidental mishap of birth in a geographical location. The solution may be in like minded individuals congregating in some unwanted locality and by virtue of superior intellect transforming it into an oasis.--(WITH AN IMMENSE FRIGGIN MOAT).

Are we bad because we milk cows, or are cows stupid coz they let us. Sometimes a cow is just a cow.

Anaele said...


Perhaps being more articulate with you argument and statements could have convinced me about your supposed ‘superior intellect.’ Rather than tagging you racists, I wish to state that I am yet to be convinced about your idea of superiority, however, I am open to giving you the opportunity to convince me. Attilathehun, who are these people of superior intellect? Where are they located? How can their superiority be substantiated?

In addition, please, I am interested in knowing how an experience of ‘African savagery’ presents itself. How is it different from other events that have taken place around the world and throughout the worlds history?

Anonymous said...

Please move to SA. We are really in need of your skills and of course the money you will bring in. You are clearly a good person as well.
I am reminded of the old joke where an Afrikaans speaking farmer spots a fellow drinking water from a fountain, and in Afrikaans, shouts to him not to drink the water because it is full of sheep crap. The fellow shouts back, saying he is an Ozzie and does not inderstand Afrikaans, to which the farmer goes enjoy the water...

Anyway, why on earth do you think more than a million whites have left? These are all skilled people...! Why?
And your views on our varsities? You have no idea just to what extent the quality has been dumbed down. Why do you think certain countries will no longer allow our doctors in if they qualified after 1994? They are turning out blacks with degrees who are totally incompetent in the real world.
And Soweto? A Ghetto? Under the "apartheid" regime houses with running water and electricity and tar roads were built and GIVEN to the occupants... You want to see ghettoes? Look at Nigeria, Kenya in fact the whole of Africa if you want to see ghettoes. Just why are the blacks from the north pouring in, in their MILLIONS?
I have news for you - you are slightly more than a tad naive old son...
Btw, have a look at IQ and the Wealth of Nations. The authors are not racist either - and finally as I told the savant, a truth is not a truth till you have experienced it.
But do come visit us - just watch your back.

Anaele said...

Doodler, I will start with this.

“why on earth do you think more than a million whites have left?”

Hello!! I should be explaining this to someone else other than a White South African. But since you asked, I am going to tell you what is to my knowledge. Many white South Africans have left to seek better opportunities and have done so even prior to 1994 (THE END OF APARTHEID). Others have left because of a loss of once exclusive privilege of economic reproduction and upward social mobility they enjoyed. There are some who have also left South Africa because of safety concerns – instability and violence that are attributable to the long years of inequity and Voerword’s Bantu education. Understandably, people who see national progress from a very self /race centred standpoint find the radical changes to the distribution of civil rights and privileges hard to swallow.

Secondly, you say South African education has been ‘dumbed down’ because of black students. Do you mean they are lowering standards in order to accommodate black students? I must remind you that the faculty is the major Universities in SA are predominantly white (a visit to their website will prove this). Thus, is it predominantly white faculty that are now ‘dumbing’ down the standards or the black graduates who are subject to the same standards as their white counterparts? And please when you say things such as countries restricting post 1994 medical graduates from Africa, substantiate it with fact. It is a huge claim to make. I know of post 1994 South African medical graduates doing their fellowship and residency in the US. My wife and some of her friends did electives in South Africa as recently as 2003 because of the regard for the training there. I don’t know where you are getting your information. Nevertheless, I think SA trained doctors should stay in SA since the country is also in serious need of medical personal. I am sure patriotic citizens will stay. GOLD DIGGERS will always look for gold.

If Soweto, like you said was an epitome of apartheid’s social responsibility, I wonder why it became a national project to provide homes and public infrastructure in Soweto and other racialised and underserved settlements post 1994. Was the quality of infrastructure in white neighbourhoods the same as in Soweto and other similar settlements? If not, why? Were all this people not entitled to the same privileges of citizenship? You attempt to revise history as if we are not living in this Easyjet and Google modernity.

Lastly, when you look at ‘IQ and the Wealth of Nations,’ please pay some attention to the Genome Project also. You may begin to understand that the concept of race is not as clearly defined as you might think. My usual feeling is that people really don’t need to feel superior to others, unless they have an innate insecurity in themselves.

You might call me ‘naïve’ but what I will say to you is open your eyes and you mind and you will find that there is a lot to learn.

SAVANT said...

I think Anaele must answer this question. Does he see any reason why SA wont go the way of other African post-colonialcountries? And if so, why?

I think the onus is on him to demonstrate this, given that there has been the same outcome everywhere, and all the underlying indicators are present in SA as well.

Adis said...


I suppose I should start with an example of a postcolonial country most familiar to you, which is Ireland. It became a free state in 1922, 74 years before South Africa, 58 years before Zimbabwe, 38 year before Nigeria and 35 years before Ghana. Ireland remained very poor and underdeveloped until the 90s and was regarded as a third world nation. Up to the 1990s, it continued to experience a level of emigration unparalleled by existing levels in the countries mentioned above with the exception of Zimbabwe. Ireland experienced a famine more severe than those that took/taking place in Malawi and present day Zimbabwe. Statisticians have put the death toll of the Irish famine at over one million, which is only comparable to the total number of casualties from the 1970s, and 1980s famine in Ethiopia. No such starvation has taken place in Nigeria, Ghana or any other African country in peacetime. Ireland also fought the war of independence as well the long drawn unrest involving the IRA, which only subsided in the last decade. The brief picture I have painted of Ireland above is not very dissimilar to that of many postcolonial countries in Africa. It is arguable that sceptics in 1940, 1960, or 1980 would not have anticipated the peace and unprecedented economic growth and infrastructural development in Ireland today.

With 74 years of a head-start when comparing Ireland to South Africa, one can argue that SA is doing quite well. I can’t prove to you why SA will not go through the same ugly experiences that other postcolonial countries (Ireland inclusive) have gone through. Perhaps it would. May be it won’t.

However, it is worthy to note certain transcendental developments in SA that are indicative of a progress-orientated people. South Africans avoided a war of recrimination by forgiving their oppressors. The Irish burnt the houses of the British aristocracy and drove most of them out. SA’s tactic was partly strategic because they needed the whites that have educated only themselves properly and controlled the economy and other social and governmental institutions. Smart. The SA economy has grown consistently since 1994 and is considered a powerhouse in Africa. This development has created a black middle class but also enriched whites that are participating in and across all economic strata in SA. Whites predominantly run the burgeoning property market and I am sure you know who keeps the profit. My point is that both black and white middle and upper class are having a good time and people don’t usually like to rock the boat if doing so will endanger their stability. But of course there is a restive underclass that the government is not doing enough, fast enough, to accommodate. But they too are less likely to upset their marginal stability, or so I think. In addition, SA’s democracy is representative, stable and matches any western democracy. Yes, Mbeki and Zuma may get embroiled in some power struggle but what is that compare to Putin shutting down any opposition? Also, is that not similar to Micheal McDowel trying to sideline Mary Harney from the same party? These pointers and many others are more indicative of progress and development rather than an apocalypse yet to come.

Like I said before, lets keep an open mind and see what happens. For SA citizens, support your country and stop anticipating its downfall. Get over the politics and sensibilities of the old guard and appreciate the hand of peace extended to you through Mandela. I am a Nigeria and here I am arguing for your country. You should be doing this and not me. I am simultaneously operating between Nigeria, Ireland and the US, participating civically in these places and working for their best interest. That is patriotic, which I think is better than cynicism, partisanship, sectarianism or outright hatred.

Anonymous said...

@anaele: I dont intend entering into a debate with you - A truth is a truth only once you have experienced it - do come and settle in SA.
Or viewed from a different perspective - don't bother arguing with fools.
We really look forward having you here.
And when you do arrive - Please let us know when you do, and more importantly, keep us posted on your experiences, such as your use of public transport, our hospitals, etc. Oh, and your visits to Soweto when you see your buddies there...
They say the difference between a Scandinavian liberal and a frothing at the mouth racist is seven days in Johannesburg.

Anonymous said...

Sorry but you got your facts all screwed up. Somebody is fomenting racial hatred. Please acquaint yourself with the facts set forth on and in particular with the way farmers are being driven off their land. Similarly, acquaint yourself with the urban home invasions.
So, dont talk rubbish.
And as for Mandela giving a hand, so sorry again, it has not worked, because Mbeki is renowned for his anti White sentiments.
Ironically, Pik Botha, the Foreign Minister in the NP government, who then joined the ANC has today forecast that SA is going the Zim route. And Mbeki was very put out by some of his comments about the rotten state of the nation, wrote him a six page racist letter too..
But again, I suppose I cannot blame you and the likes of anaele, simply because you do not have all the facts - and those facts presented to you are skewed.
So, also have a look at - it is a bit over the top for some, but read the articles - in addition to the africancrisis site, you may get an idea of what is really happening...

Anonymous said...

Refuse to debate Doodler?? Now why should that be I wonder?

Adis said...


First of all Anaele and Adis are both my names, not two individuals.

It will please me if you issue semi academic references or at least non partisan sources when you talk about facts and getting it right.To refer me to extreme right wing websites such as and, or remarks by disgruntled politians for unbiased facts is like asking me to write a scientific paper based on tabloid information. Your profession is Law (as you identified) and I am sure you understand what I mean.

However, I will read such texts for the alternative point of view they offer. I am open to such views, yet, it must be evaluated based on a comparative engagement with, say, far left materials and moderate stuff, in addition to, like you said, personal experience.

This personal experience include views from my wife who has spent time in SA, My sister, who is studying in Stellenbosch and South African friends, white and black who we have come across. These people have alternative points of view.So, Don't call me names. your view is only one point of view.

But don't get me wrong. I did not say there are no problems in SA. But where are there not problems? There are lots of no go areas in SA because of crime, but such is the case in some places here in the US. Public transport is bad in SA; try living in Texas without a car. There are power outages now in SA. What about when only a section of society had power? Was there really electricity for all then? Mbeki govt made a silly mistake by not listening to Eskom. A reflective look at history will show that it is not the end of the world.

Please, just open up bit more to perspectives other than freedom front+ rhetoric.

Anonymous said...

Odd that you do not make your profiles public. You are sowing disinformation about SA.
Fact is everything blacks touch is corrupt, but they cannot help it.
It is inbred. Our police commissioner, the head of Interpol, Zoomer, the lot.
The entire infrastructure is crumbling, and some dumbass black now blames it on apartheid - what an idiot.
Fact remains whitey is voting with his feet.

Adis said...

"Anonymous," asks why someone with real names does not make his profile public.

Irony? You tell.

I suppose that is the same irony embodied in your comment. First of all, get over the emotion, reflect and then argue intelligibly.

Anonymous said...

Comparing Ireland with African countries is pure folly,Ireland may have been classed as a third world country for much of its history but it was never a third world basket case like most african countries.

also during the its time as a third world country it still had a much higher standard of living than any part of africa,and more importantly still it had an infrastructure of electricity,clean running water,telecommunications etc.

Ireland had these and managed to maintain them because it is populated by a people (whites) who are competent enough to build and maintain them,even in the face of economic hardship.

South Africas ANC inherited a first world infrastructure and did not even have to build it (the hard part)they just had to maintain it,and it seems even that is beyond them,hence recently south africas world famous gold and diamond mines are going down the crapper because the electric grid is no longer able to provide electricity because it is now maintained by blacks.

Also in recent years immigration between ireland and nigeria and other african countries has all been in one direction,if it was a choice betwwen living in ireland or any part of africa of my choosing it would be dublin bound for me everytime.

Anonymous said...

The British Government helped Mugabe to de-colonise Rhodesia.
Congratulations with the results today! What a success story!
The USA and British Goverments forced the South African apartheids regime to caputulate 1994. Congratulations once again! What a safe and non corrupt rainbow nation! The best constitution in the world! In 2005 24000 South Africans was killed in crime related incidents vs 3500 USA citizens!
There are 2 relative success stories in Sub Sahara Africa - Namibie and Botswana.
Soccer visitors to SA in 2010 better equip themselves properly! They are in for the biggest crime experience of their lives!
I want to invite all you "black symphatisers" out there to immigrate to South Africa? Please, it is safe!

Paul said...

I just watch a documentary on Tibet. About half way through – and utterly convinced the Chinese are way out of line – I thought to myself: what does the world think of Apartheid? I searched a few sites; found the words "BLACK PEOPLE CAN NOT GOVERN THEMSELVES" amid a massive polarization of opinions on Apartheid and the prospects for post-Apartheid South Africa; and felt compelled to write this.

I've heard those words before by the way, many times.

I’m not for a second contending Apartheid was right. But, assuming most of us agree it was wrong – was it more wrong than what is happening in Zim now? I would wager that those on the ground – whether they are tied to tree being forced to drink diesel by 16 year-old “war-vets”, or one of the ones getting publicly beaten in Operation Makavhoterapapi for voting MDC, or just stuck in a petrol queue in the relative comfort of their own car – would scream a resounding “no!”

You see, I left Joburg – post-grad degree under belt – for Chicago a little over two years ago. Not that it should matter, but in the context of this discussion it would be an insult to all of you to pretend it doesn’t: I’m white – I was born that way. I like Chicago. I could even grow to love it in time. However, having left friends, family, the Atlantic and Indian oceans, Sunday braais, my swimming pool, thunderstorms, Table Mountain, and my dog – I miss South Africa very much. Or do I? There are, of course, things I don’t miss: having to stand in line at the police station; or, even worse – getting face to face with the unfathomly unqualified person at the front of that line; the bad roads; depressing newspaper headlines; the senseless use of tax-payers money renaming airports; watching the president publicly condone Mugabe’s actions; and yes, most of all, leaving the second place issue leagues behind, the crime.

I was in school while Apartheid was getting phased out and was able to gradually observe the change for the better – and worse – in the country. I watched as some evils merely got exchanged for others. Living in the U.S. these last 2 years has brought me to the conclusion that people who have never lived in Africa will not – should not – try understand it. It is a beautiful and savage place. If you haven’t witnessed first-hand what it is like there, please don’t be too quick to judge the pretty strong opinions that come through on a blog like this. In my humble opinion, Savant is spot-on with his analysis; South Africa will self-destruct, just like Zim, just like many other African countries have done in the past – when left to their own devices. True, it will take far longer than any other country on the continent, but it is inevitable.

Is there anyone out there who has lived in South Africa who will bring a realistic argument against Savant’s piece above to the table? If you’re an idealist or have a romanticized opinion of the “struggle” then please don’t even bother as you couldn’t possibly have lived there.

Manfredk said...

The ANC Election Slogan should have been
A better Life for All Politicians
instead of
A better Life for ALL
This is what is happening in South Africa right now and is not any different from any other African Country
Why has Africa failed? See here or here

Anonymous said...

The photos on this site (Manfredk) are so beautiful. And it's all being destroyed under our eyes.

Anonymous said...

Don't get me wrong, I think there are huge problems in South Africa and the future is very shakey.

But one disturbing thing about this forum, even though you claim its untrue, is that it definately seems like most of you guys are hoping it fails. You've left the country and now you want it to fail so you're decision to get out is justified.

SAVANT said...

well, I'm not South African. I think there's some truth in what you say but that's human nature. If you're in effect driven from your country it's natural that you hope those that did it fall flat on their faces.

Anonymous said...

I suppose it is human nature. Its quite rough though because I'm sure most still have friends and family in South Africa, so to hope it fails is hoping they end up on their faces.

What do you mean by "driven" out of the country? If you mean that they were forced to leave I disagree. No whites are being forced to leave South Africa. That comment is more accurately aimed at Zimbabwe.

From my experience, most leave South Africa because of crime, service problems like power cuts etc, the fear of future instability and the promise of greener pastures. Is that what you mean by driven out? All of these need to be improved and worked on but they are EVERYONES problems and not directed at a particular demographic. I think all the people leaving adds to that problem.

I love Africa - the sun, the standard of living (having maids, garden boys and big houses)and I enjoy my life and my friends. The problems do make me uncomfortable at times but not enough to "drive" me out. Its a disturbing thought that there are all you guys overseas watching the news and getting satisfaction when there is another problem in South Africa. People that are in effect hoping my lifestyle comes to an end and I have to start off fresh overseas.

There is something I find quite ironic with this site. Its clearly an Irish site which attracts mainly comments from white Africans living in Ireland. On this post most of them hope South Africa fails. On this same blog you can then go and comment on how Ireland is being invaded by Nigerians & Poles. The debate on Africa is white vs black. The debate on Ireland is Irish vs foreigners. Can I sit in South Africa, watch the news and hope the Irish government kicks all of you foreigners flooding their country out? Remember that includes white South Africans because that debate is not white vs black, its Irish vs foreigners and the tables are turned.

I don't have my head in the clouds. If you base South Africa's future on evidence from other African countries then you will most probably be proven right in the years to come.

Anonymous said...

Doodler - I was in Jobg for a lot more than 7 days, for six whole months, made many visits to Soweto and did not become a racist, even after getting mugged. Bang goes that theory.

Anonymous said...

Yes, yes Greg. We know, we know.
Also that you are at Howard U, a pitch black varsity. You are doing a thesis on black SAns views about your adopted homeland, the US during the '80s. We also know that you get ragged mercilessly by among others, the SAS readers, for your incredible stupidity about SA. You've been corresponding on various SA blogs showing your incredible naivete and doubtlessly pleasing your black teachers. But then again, you have never had a job in your life either.
We also know you have never been able to refute the facts placed on SAS - interesting that you pop up here too. Haven't seen you refuting any of the facts here either.
You were just luckier than poor little Amy Biehl.
So much for the concept of IQ...

Anonymous said...

Never had a job? I have had many jobs. What I would like to know from you is where does the anger that some white SA men and women exhibit come from, as evident from the videos that Rheindeer used to put out on YouTube.

Anonymous said...

I'm fascinated. How did Doodler know that G-Man was the Greg who posted on SAS?

It's a small world!

Anonymous said...

"pay some attention to the Genome Project also. You may begin to understand that the concept of race is not as clearly defined as you might think."

If you look at the genome project and recent studies (Risch at Stanford). Also a recent study showed:

"We identified the most common FCN gene polymorphisms in five ethnic groups. Large ethnic differences were observed and the African populations contained several SNPs that were not observed in the other groups." (Functional SNPs in the human ficolin (FCN) genes reveal distinct geographical patterns aDepartment of Clinical Immunology, Sect 7631 Rigshospitalet and Faculty of Health Science, University of Copenhagen, Denmark )

Have a read of Berkeley Professor Vince Sarich's book, 'Race: the reality of human differences'.

Geneticists measure genetic diversity within a species by determining the average heterozygosity of the species’ genome, or the likelihood of its having more than one variant of any given gene. Humans have an average heterozygosity of around 0.7, whereas dogs’ is about 0.4.